I love that e30.
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Being a Merc Man Mr G, can you show more pics of the 190,
and more info, well all info PLEEEEEEEASSSSSSe:thumbs:Comment
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Hi,
Lawsy and Glendog- its a Merc 190 with a 2.3 16v short stroke
80.mm Crank on a 2.3 block with a 96mm over bore
forged Mahle pistion, running 4mm longer rods at 11.5.1 CR.
It has BMW M62 B/end shells to reduce friction
and BMW E36 M3 Oil squirters to aid piston cooling.
A BMW E34 2.5 Diesel sump pan was modified as the
oil pan had to be turned around 180 degrees as the
rack and pinion sits where the 190 16v sump would.
Its a 2.5 16v head, converted to single chain,
polished and ported with AMG Power pack
cams, 4 x 50mm BMW ITB's with extended
intake runners via a high volume carbon airbox.
It has uprated valve springs and whole bottom end
has been lightened and fully balanced.
Its running a Merc DTM 92 4-1 Header, and will be fitted
with a dual 55mm exhaust via one rear re=packable
box.
Its Coil on plug and will be either a Motec M4
ECU or a.n another yet to be determined.
The 5 speed Getrag 16v Gearbox has been changed out
for a 211 C270 CDi 6 speed box with a lightened 16v
flywheel and uprrated 16V Clutch.
Diff is a Merc DTM 92 LSD at 3.46 ratio with 75% lock up
and fitted with an oil cooler and pump.
The 190 16v has been converted from steering box
to full rack and pinion, with a BMW Z3 1.9
2.7 ratio rack with E46 front hubs mounted
with Hamann adjustable coilovers
front and AVO 2 way adjustable coil over rears.
Front ARB is a Merc 190 2.6 which has been relocated
to suit coilovers, and its a BMW E30 M3 front ARB
at the rear. ARB's are fitted into Shore 85 arb
bushes and are fully adjustable with adjustable
drop links.
The rear Multi link subframe has been fully gusseted
and strengthened with Delrin rear subframe bushes,
and the diff has been raised 40mm to assist with
the half shaft ramp angles when lowered.
All the supension pick ups and turrets have been
gusseted and strengthened and triangulation has
been welded in to stiffen all the key points.
ABS has been removed, and its running 4 Pot BMW 750
Brembos on BMW E46 M3 330 X 28 discs with Merc
SL 500 310 X 22 mm rears with 4 pot Hi Spec alloy calipers.
Rear Brake bias valve in line is fitted inside.
There are some other bits and pieces but I think
that gives the low down to date.
and some more-
and some more-
and some more-
and some more-
and some more -
and the last for now !!!
Regards,
The Gorilla.Comment
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Hi,
Lawsy-Glendog, I lied !!!
Regards,
The Gorilla.Comment
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Great project.:beer::supz:
I run a Merc specialist, they dont make them like they used to.
The 6 spd box interests me, I take it you meant 203 c270, or 211 e270- probably same box either way.
What power do you think this can handle.
Me and business partner have talked about building a 112 V6 kompressor engine with a few tweeks mated to a manual box. We were thinking 400 bhp ish.
Dont know what chassis to put it in, I like the 202 chassis shape. Although substantial work would be required to run coilovers, and not sure how it would handle the power.
I loved my 202 c43 AMG, very old school compared to the new stuff, not as old school as your 190 mind.
I have many thoughts, but unfortunately finding time to try them out is hard. Work is hectic at present, so personal projects are on hold so to speak- have been saying this for 4 yrs:hahaha:- no complaints about being busy, but dont get much chance to play.Comment
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Hi Lawsy,
Yes, the 6 speed box is from a E class 270 CDi.
Its the only 6 speed Manual Box Merc make that is rated
for 400nm Torque.
Its almost identical ratios to a BMW 6 Speed/ CSL box
save that first is 4.45. So its almost a C/R box.
Took a lot time to figure out that the M102 bolt
pattern was still being used via the Diesels.
Bolts straight on a Merc 16V Block, but then
the fun begins !!!
In its present build spec, if I get 250 ish BHP from the engine
I will be well pleased, as the car will only be just
over 1100kg when done.
I have access to a DTM Block with 12.5cr Pistons
which if fitted with the 49mm slides, 8 Injectors and Carbon Airbox
set up I have here, then it would be 300 BHP plus, but
I think it would be to 'peaky' an engine for use
on the road, but its an option.
The Merc V6 is one of their best ever engines in my
opinion, and will deliver strong power numbers.
The recent trend on the C43 AMG is to fit the E55
engine which is a straight plug and play,
even down to the ECU etc.
A few have been done in the States now and with a
LSD and a 3.27 rear diff they become uber quick,
for not big money.
I was going to fit a C36 AMG engine, which has been
done several times in a 190 16v, but just preferred the
idea of free revving, light weight, point and squirt
old school roller skate.
Be interesting to see how it all turns out.
Regards,
The Gorilla.Comment
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Originally posted by The Gorilla View Post
It certainly will be interesting to see your results.
Where are you based, I would love a butchers at it some time, if possible that is?
They officially released a couple c55 in 202 guise, very rare thing, but there are a few about. I take it you mean the old 113 v8 non supercharged engine in the c43?
The superharged v8 is a monster engine and if shoehorned into something would be seriously fast, think e30 M5 engine fast.
The 112 v6 supercharged is a very underated engine, my old c32 amg was a flier and on a straight would show a CSL a clean pair of heels, unfortunately the 203 chassis is not the best, although it could be made better.
If it handled well from the factory it would have been an M3 killer.
I would be in a 204 C63 AMG right now if only they handled better:banghead:, merc make great engines, but put them in cars for old men to drive
That is another project idea, strip out a c32 amg, cage, suspension, brakes, manual box, decent tyres, I know if it was made to handle well it would be a devastatingly quick carComment
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Hi Lawsy,
When the old 190 is complete,
next few months hopefully,
then if your down this way
South Coast, near Bournemouth, then
your more than welcome, or
if I am going M40 I will give you
a shout and bring the old 190
in for a cuppa !!!
Regards,
The Gorilla.Comment
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Hi,
Lawsy- you may have already seen
these but there are some quite
stunning cars here, shame is
Merc has all the keys.
From what you were saying 2nd link
is your 'Car'.
A colleague in Germany, Rynar Jung, they own large Merc Dealership
had a client with one on these, back in the days when Merc
would sell Works Cars.
I drove the sister car to this, and the only way to explain
it was that it was a F1 car with a roof.
Absolutley Brain Numbing.
Regards,
The Gorilla.Comment
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These pictures explain why my opinion on this type of conversion is way different to yours, as your car is way more 'engineered' than the example I experienced afew years ago.Originally posted by The Gorilla View Post
Good work.:thumbs:Comment
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So .. pretty much stock then :smt102Originally posted by The Gorilla View PostHi,
Lawsy and Glendog- its a Merc 190 with a 2.3 16v short stroke
80.mm Crank on a 2.3 block with a 96mm over bore
forged Mahle pistion, running 4mm longer rods at 11.5.1 CR.
It has BMW M62 B/end shells to reduce friction
and BMW E36 M3 Oil squirters to aid piston cooling.
A BMW E34 2.5 Diesel sump pan was modified as the
oil pan had to be turned around 180 degrees as the
rack and pinion sits where the 190 16v sump would.
Its a 2.5 16v head, converted to single chain,
polished and ported with AMG Power pack
cams, 4 x 50mm BMW ITB's with extended
intake runners via a high volume carbon airbox.
It has uprated valve springs and whole bottom end
has been lightened and fully balanced.
Its running a Merc DTM 92 4-1 Header, and will be fitted
with a dual 55mm exhaust via one rear re=packable
box.
Its Coil on plug and will be either a Motec M4
ECU or a.n another yet to be determined.
The 5 speed Getrag 16v Gearbox has been changed out
for a 211 C270 CDi 6 speed box with a lightened 16v
flywheel and uprrated 16V Clutch.
Diff is a Merc DTM 92 LSD at 3.46 ratio with 75% lock up
and fitted with an oil cooler and pump.
The 190 16v has been converted from steering box
to full rack and pinion, with a BMW Z3 1.9
2.7 ratio rack with E46 front hubs mounted
with Hamann adjustable coilovers
front and AVO 2 way adjustable coil over rears.
Front ARB is a Merc 190 2.6 which has been relocated
to suit coilovers, and its a BMW E30 M3 front ARB
at the rear. ARB's are fitted into Shore 85 arb
bushes and are fully adjustable with adjustable
drop links.
The rear Multi link subframe has been fully gusseted
and strengthened with Delrin rear subframe bushes,
and the diff has been raised 40mm to assist with
the half shaft ramp angles when lowered.
All the supension pick ups and turrets have been
gusseted and strengthened and triangulation has
been welded in to stiffen all the key points.
ABS has been removed, and its running 4 Pot BMW 750
Brembos on BMW E46 M3 330 X 28 discs with Merc
SL 500 310 X 22 mm rears with 4 pot Hi Spec alloy calipers.
Rear Brake bias valve in line is fitted inside.
There are some other bits and pieces but I think
that gives the low down to date.
and some more-
and some more-
and some more-
and some more-
and some more -
and the last for now !!!
Regards,
The Gorilla.
Great Automotive Engineering and engine new itty D ! .. loving your work mate:thumbs:Comment
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Love this thread, and love the 190 nearly as much as the E30 :thumbs:
But Jesus lads, I haven't a clue what you're talking about in half of it :bigcry:
Comment
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Hi,
Talking of CSL engines here is the
BMW 6 Pot that actually will
make over 400 BHP NA.
Edit- my mistake, this is P54 B20 which is
about 320 BHP from MS.
And if that seems a bit tame then you could
fit one of these.
Personally I would go for this in either a CSL or E30 M3. Sublime.
Regards,
The Gorilla.Comment
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Awe inspiring
I love these threads - superb links to make the petrol loaded blood flow:-)
Ouuu ouu ou ou ou o u o u ouu - the Gorilla rocks!:thumbs:Comment
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