Considering a '98 M3 - What do I need to know?

[jet_dogg]

Engineering has its limits, as does MSRP. These were what $60k cars in '06? My other '06 cost double that and then some new. Obviously, they didn't sell 85,000 of those. To do what this car does and keep it under $60k was quite a feat, actually IMO.

maw

The subframe needed to be a proper design. Design wouldn't have cost more money nor would engineering different mounting points, I can't believe you guys are arguing this.

A 2003 honda civic or any other car for that matter doesn't have its diff carrier trying to detach itself from the chassis causing a catastrophic structural failure. Come on fellas you can do better.

[Obioban]

General needs:
Cooling system every 75,000 miles
Oil pump nut
5th gear lean

parts that fail/tear with hard use to look at:
front shock towers
rear shock towers
rtab pockets
front sway bar mounts
Rear sway bar mounts
RTAB pockets
RSMs
the subframe itself, on earlier cars

and then the general questionable material choices:
door cards fall apart
glove box sag
backlighting on gauges/instruments fails

… and the headlights pretty much came from the factory failed (near zero light output)

[BlueBimmers]

FCP pulled together a good list: https://blog.fcpeuro.com/how-to-buy-and-own-a-bmw-e36

I had a 99 Fern for over a decade, fun car.

[maw1124]

The subframe needed to be a proper design. Design wouldn't have cost more money nor would engineering different mounting...

But don’t miss the point that engineering has limits. Not necessarily monetary, sometimes simple mistakes. Like “lifetime fluid” for Pentosin and transmissions. That engineering decision cost absolutely nothing yet BMW and MB got it absolutely wrong, during the same years even. “Hindsight is 20/20” is a cliche for a reason. I can’t believe you are arguing this. And the 3-Series isn't even BMW's marquee product like the S and SL class are for Mercedes. Didn't matter. Engineering has limits, and they only get worse when trying to squeeze too much car into a small budget, which I still say they did well here.

maw

[01SG]

Many thanks. How about mileage? Two owner car with about 205k. Is that too many miles regardless of how well it has been cared for?

Jesse

If it is well cared for and the body is straight, not at all. But it depends how much work and money you're willing to put in. Regardless of mileage, at this age anything that hasn't recently been done will likely need to be done.

[jet_dogg]

Lol ok maw.

[repoman89]

General needs:
Cooling system every 75,000 miles
Oil pump nut
5th gear lean

parts that fail/tear with hard use to look at:
front shock towers
rear shock towers
rtab pockets
front sway bar mounts
Rear sway bar mounts
RTAB pockets
RSMs
the subframe itself, on earlier cars

and then the general questionable material choices:
door cards fall apart
glove box sag
backlighting on gauges/instruments fails

… and the headlights pretty much came from the factory failed (near zero light output)

I’ve been kind of wanting one lately but this makes the chassis sound like Swiss cheese even worse than the E46 ..

[Obioban]

I’ve been kind of wanting one lately but this makes the chassis sound like Swiss cheese even worse than the E46 ..

Ha, it absolutely is. My brother opened the door on his one day. Door opened, but the door car stayed in the door frame.

But, they're tons of fun to drive. I enjoyed both my S50B32 car and my S52 car. But... build quality is not their strong suit-- probably the low point of BMW build quality.

[01SG]

I’ve been kind of wanting one lately but this makes the chassis sound like Swiss cheese even worse than the E46 ..

I think it's important to emphasize the caveat of "hard use" when referring to the chassis. I have not suffered from a single issue listed there. All of those problems are largely only so with track use.

The strut towers and shock mounts are easily reinforced, and don't we all have those very same reinforcements on the E46? Sway bar mounts will only break with upgraded bars and track use. Just like the E46. RTAB pocket failure is the most serious, but also very rare.

The E46 has more major issues and fewer small ones. The E36 is the opposite.

The interior is absolutely a low point. The luxury package helps a little bit. I like the layout, but it is an order of magnitude lower quality than the E46. The glovebox and headliner are guaranteed to fail. The E36 seats are better, though.

Fifth gear lean is probably the most widespread big problem, though I only say that as an observer on forums. I have not had the issue. Only have great things to say about the gearbox.

You just have to find one that was well taken care of, which is no small task.

[D-O]

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Jesse

[Obioban]

I think it's important to emphasize the caveat of "hard use" when referring to the chassis. I have not suffered from a single issue listed there. All of those problems are largely only so with track use.

The strut towers and shock mounts are easily reinforced, and don't we all have those very same reinforcements on the E46? Sway bar mounts will only break with upgraded bars and track use. Just like the E46. RTAB pocket failure is the most serious, but also very rare.

The E46 has more major issues and fewer small ones. The E36 is the opposite.

The interior is absolutely a low point. The luxury package helps a little bit. I like the layout, but it is an order of magnitude lower quality than the E46. The glovebox and headliner are guaranteed to fail. The E36 seats are better, though.

Fifth gear lean is probably the most widespread big problem, though I only say that as an observer on forums. I have not had the issue. Only have great things to say about the gearbox.

You just have to find one that was well taken care of, which is no small task.

My e36 M3 street car had the front shock towers fail. Zero track use. e46 shock towers only fail when combined with shitty (poor shock tower loading) camber plates-- with stock hats or good camber plates, no need to reenforce. e36 shock towers are failure prone without aftermarket parts weirdly loading them-- so, not the same situation, no.

I also tore my front sway bar out, with street use only (and stock sways). I do drive my cars hard, but not anywhere near track levels of hard.

e36 M3 seats (vadars specifically) are, IMO, one of the worse seats ever put in a BMW. Unsupportive yet uncomfortable, head rest can't hold itself up, and crap leather. Junk.

Gear box is nice, but it REALLY needs a 6th gear. Sitting at 100mph on the highway, you're ~5000rpm. Very buzzy.

[01SG]

My e36 M3 street car had the front shock towers fail. Zero track use. e46 shock towers only fail when combined with shitty (poor shock tower loading) camber plates-- with stock hats or good camber plates, no need to reenforce. e36 shock towers are failure prone without aftermarket parts weirdly loading them-- so, not the same situation, no.

I also tore my front sway bar out, with street use only (and stock sways). I do drive my cars hard, but not anywhere near track levels of hard.

e36 M3 seats (vadars specifically) are, IMO, one of the worse seats ever put in a BMW. Unsupportive yet uncomfortable, head rest can't hold itself up, and crap leather. Junk.

Gear box is nice, but it REALLY needs a 6th gear. Sitting at 100mph on the highway, you're ~5000rpm. Very buzzy.

Fair enough. But it's easy to reinforce the towers, and this is still anecdotal. Sway bar mounts tearing is definitely more of a pain in the ass, but that doesn't appear common on the street with stock bars. You probably drive your car harder than most.

I meant the luxury seats, they're more comfortable to me than the E46 seats. Didn't have Vaders in either of mine.

[M3INABUFU]

My e36 M3 street car had the front shock towers fail. Zero track use. e46 shock towers only fail when combined with shitty (poor shock tower loading) camber plates-- with stock hats or good camber plates, no need to reenforce. e36 shock towers are failure prone without aftermarket parts weirdly loading them-- so, not the same situation, no.

I also tore my front sway bar out, with street use only (and stock sways). I do drive my cars hard, but not anywhere near track levels of hard.

e36 M3 seats (vadars specifically) are, IMO, one of the worse seats ever put in a BMW. Unsupportive yet uncomfortable, head rest can't hold itself up, and crap leather. Junk.

Gear box is nice, but it REALLY needs a 6th gear. Sitting at 100mph on the highway, you're ~5000rpm. Very buzzy.

I heavily second the E36 M3 needing a 6th gear, I would totally invest in adding a ZF E46 6 speed transmission

[M3INABUFU]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but

the headliner and A/B/C pillars MUST be redone
but getting A/B/C pillars brand new is almost impossible

it's important that any project/purchase should at least have these on the car
to save the future owner a massive headache in the future.

[bmwvsevo]

I heavily second the E36 M3 needing a 6th gear, I would totally invest in adding a ZF E46 6 speed transmission

Most likely differential gear ratio and the intended use matters. I have a 3.91 diff and its a track car - 5 speed is perfect for me. Many retain the 5 speed even when swapping S54 in on their track cars. Might be a different story for a street use.