Suspension: What to do?

[m3f_2manym3s]

I am picking up another 99 next week, I am assuming the car is on it's original suspension. I am going to be driving the car around school and the roads/bumps are shit. Yes I searched, I am curious what the updated consensus is from the gurus like ericsmg and edgebhart. I know this has been discussed at length, but again I have different requirements now that I am not driving the car around my home town where the roads are great. My e46 on coilovers is great, but that car has a lot more creature comforts than my 99's ever did. H&R race is out, went that route on one of my e36's and it was just too damn rough. I am debating blisteins, koni's, or sachs, and am open to all spring options. Hopefully I will get some input. I am interested in replacing all mounting hardware ect as well



Thanks!

[m3f_twentyseven]

TCKline.

[m3f_aeronaut]

Koni's and HR OE sport springs OR Koni's and OEM springs. Reasonably compliant, very predictable at the limit, amazingly capable even on track, and doesn't brake the bank.

[m3f_drtwofish]

Personally I like the stock suspension, though I'm interested in Konis the next time I need dampers. My car currently has stock springs and Bilstein Sports, which are a tad harsh on these cars, though not bad once you get used to them.


You'll get some value out of the back & forth in the last few pages in this thread:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...=543923&page=9

[m3f_EricSMG]

TCKline.

Yep, but keep the spring rates low and run the OE strut mounts for maximum street comfort.

Koni's and HR OE sport springs OR Koni's and OEM springs. Reasonably compliant, very predictable at the limit, amazingly capable even on track, and doesn't brake the bank.

Is that what you run?

[m3f_2manym3s]

Eric, thank you for your input. At this time I am going to stay away from coilovers and want to go with a shock and spring combo. So it seems as though all are saying to ditch the blister's, which I am cool with. As far as sachs vs. koni's, and the different spring combos with the koni's, can I get some input here?

[m3f_fiveightandten]

Eric, thank you for your input. At this time I am going to stay away from coilovers and want to go with a shock and spring combo. So it seems as though all are saying to ditch the blister's, which I am cool with. As far as sachs vs. koni's, and the different spring combos with the koni's, can I get some input here?

Sachs can be run with stock springs, or with H&R OE sports. I've seen people run them with H&R sports, but I wouldn't recommend that if you're looking for the best longevity or ride quality. Sachs are a little softer and more compliant than Konis, but they also don't quite have the same longevity. If you're looking for the factory ride/handling, or looking for the absolute most plush setup you can ride on, Sachs are a good choice. They're under rated for sure, but for most people Konis are a bit of a better choice.


Konis are able to be run with lowering springs without reducing their lifespan, and they're adjustable. The adjustability is also nice, as it can somewhat compensate for wear over time (though, keep in mind that only the rebound is adjustable). You can run them with pretty much any spring you want. It sounds like H&R OE sports would likely be what you're looking for.


I'd recommend a few different setups, depending on what you want and how much you want to spend.


1) Stock Sachs and stock springs: There's nothing wrong with this setup. I completely refreshed my car with all new OE rubber and new Sachs and I liked it. I ultimately went on to TC Kline SA coilovers, but the Sachs were nice.


2) Koni Yellows with H&R OE sports: This will be a bit more performance oriented without much of a reduction in ride quality compared to stock. It DOES ride a little harder, but the difference isn't huge and if you're driving a performance car, it's not likely something you would mind. With this setup, over stock, you're basically buying the aftermarket parts because you want the car to handle a little sharper than stock, at the expense of a slightly harder ride.


3) Koni Yellows with H&R OE sports, Ground control street camber plates, and sway bars of your choice: This will out corner setup #2, it will dive less, and feel a little sharper with respect to directional changes. It will have a barely perceptible difference in ride quality compared to setup #2 (mainly over large uneven road imperfections). You'd set front camber to around -1.8º (anywhere from -1.5º to -2.0º, i'd shoot for -1.8º) with little or no front toe. Set the rear to factory specs. This is about as good as you can get in terms of having a responsive car without degrading the ride quality (over stock) notably.


If you are willing to deal with a little more harshness, we can talk about H&R sports, Eibachs, Votglands, or other more aggressive springs, or talk about coilovers. I'm running 400/400 on my TC Kline SA setup, and it's VERY compliant. The ride quality is great. But it's definitely firmer than the above setups, and definitely a lot more expensive. But, IMO, i'd go with one of the above 3 options if you're pretty concerned with ride quality.


It should also be noted that what tires you choose to run with have an affect on things. Something with a hard sidewall degrades the ride quality a noticeable degree, though provides sharper handling. A softer sidewall takes the edge off bumps noticeably. If you're looking for a soft summer tire on the cheap, I can recommend Sumitomo HTRZ III. I have them on my E46 330ci (daily driver). The sidewalls are soft, which I didn't prefer on my E36 M3 (weekend toy). But on a DD, it can be a welcome attribute.


Hope that helps.

[m3f_EricSMG]

Exactly bang on, Nick.


I would add setup 1.5 to the mix: Konis/OEM springs. Unbelievably good setup if you're okay with stock ride height. It handles better than #1 and is a it more relaxed than #2.


I will be starting with that on the techno

[m3f_drtwofish]

Any thoughts on the Dinan Stage 1 setup? It uses Koni yellows, is within spitting distance of the cost of Konis + H&R OE Sports + '95 conversion stuff, and you don't have to carve up your strut housings.


Edit - that's the '95 setup. The '96-'99 setup is cheaper yet:

http://www.dinancars.com/product/d19...ries&mid=1025/

[m3f_EricSMG]

Any thoughts on the Dinan Stage 1 setup? It uses Koni yellows, is within spitting distance of the cost of Konis + H&R OE Sports + '95 conversion stuff, and you don't have to carve up your strut housings.

I'm curious as well, haven't tried it. That said, the dinan front springs are no stiffer than stock according to vorshlags site so I'd be concerned with too low/too soft, potentially. My friend SG_M3 tried this, I'll see if I can find his notes.



Oh - I'm almost certain you still have to cut your struts as koni doesn't make a complete unit for this car. But that's a cake walk.

[m3f_drtwofish]

I think you're right about the strut-cutting - at a glance I thought they were complete units. I'm surprised Dinan would sell parts that require a literal hack job.

[m3f_2manym3s]

The reason I am curious about koni and stock is due to the fact that I really am more concerned with height than anything, my area is full of speed bumps and steep inclines ect and I don't want to tear up this car

[m3f_frbz]

On the question of the Dinan stage 1 set up I have some personal experience. I have a 94 M3 and have the Dinan springs and shocks set to the recommended specs. They are generally matched at the vendor and supplied preadjusted. The car also has Vorshlag camber plates, poly FCA bushing and turner aluminium control arms at the back. Camber is about -2.5 in front and - 1.6 in the rear. With Z3 steering rack turn in is fierce. On this combo it rides better than a stock e46M but has far more front impact harshness. Does just fine on the street and on the track. It does not chew up the front tires on the track but does have more inside wear on the front tires even with zero toe on the street.

[m3f_Radmobile]

I am absolutely in love with my Bilstein sports with Eibach pro springs. Very stock-ish but slightly more aggressive. In my opinion, it is not harsh at all. I would do it all over again and my biggest regret was not doing it sooner.

[m3f_EricSMG]

I am absolutely in love with my Bilstein sports with Eibach pro springs. Very stock-ish but slightly more aggressive. In my opinion, it is not harsh at all. I would do it all over again and my biggest regret was not doing it sooner.

I ran that setup years ago on my Estoril sedan and liked it quite a bit. But I was younger and more tolerant so I'm not sure if I'd like it today. I remember it handling extremely good, though. A little trim of the front bumps would help in this case as the Billy sports are travel limited. But I would not attempt this without a thorough analysis of travel limits, etc.