Originally posted by Purple99M3
yeah if ya ask me, most straights are a rip.. if ya think about it.. its a pipe that is mandrel bent and has a pair of flanges.. how can that be so expensive.. but i would love to see another 15 whp.. that would be great! :beer:
Most straight pipes are not THAT expensive. B&B offers a set at $450. THe AA and the SS are so expensive because they incorporate a resonator to reduce sound. Resonators are costly, and they tax it onto the overall price. On a 99 M-Coupe you could see about a 15rwhp gain with headers, full exhaust, intake, and a chip. Thats being very conservative as well.
Originally posted by SCM3
I'm not sure. That is why I'm asking. I've been inquireing about headers for a while now and I have found that there is very little information available about each product. I still feel like I'm in the dark about whether a header system is worth the bang for the buck for an (American) E36 M3. It doesn't seem like there is much of a market for them. I wonder why? It could be the 8hr+ of labor required for the install.
Headers will vary depending on quite a few factors. As mentioned above, catalytic converters play a large part, piping diameter, and the exhaust/muffler it is matted too. Most headers ALONE do not see that great of a gain, 5-10rwhp at most on an OBD-1 or blown car. Where you are going to gain is when you can match the cat flow rates with the header flow rates, the mid-pipe flowrates with the exhaust, ect....creating a perfect flow. Most people achieve this by removing the cats. Borla offers a great system for this, the race system. It is also a great bang for the buck. As far as the gains you will see, with a full exhaust, say the one offered by Borla, you are looking at a 25-30rwhp gain on an 0BD-1 car and about 30-35 on a blown car. OBDII will not see the same results. Just for reference, Alex Chan of Eurospeed Performance had an OBD-1 intake manifold, built head, SS Header, SS Racing Resonator, SS mid-back exhaust, and obviosly a chip and intake on his 99 M3. I believe there are a more few more things that I left out, but he was putting down 264rwhp on a DynoPak dyno. SO, for you OBDII people, the gains are there, just takes a little bit of money. The reason that there is not a market for them is there price. For a BMW, the average rule of thumb is $100/HP. Headers on a stock car do not show that kind of gain and more less make it $200/HP so why buy those when you can have something else like 3.5HFM that will get you more, or an OBD-1 swap. Look around at parts for old chevys and whatnot, there headers are like $250-$400 bucks. In reality, that is twice the HP, for half the cost of BMW headers that is why there is no market. As for the labor, its a PITA. VERY tight in there, and requires a signifcant amount of patience. Still is a wonder to me how AA could find the time or money to put into R&D on there project M3.
Wesley Camping
yeah if ya ask me, most straights are a rip.. if ya think about it.. its a pipe that is mandrel bent and has a pair of flanges.. how can that be so expensive.. but i would love to see another 15 whp.. that would be great! :beer:
Most straight pipes are not THAT expensive. B&B offers a set at $450. THe AA and the SS are so expensive because they incorporate a resonator to reduce sound. Resonators are costly, and they tax it onto the overall price. On a 99 M-Coupe you could see about a 15rwhp gain with headers, full exhaust, intake, and a chip. Thats being very conservative as well.
Originally posted by SCM3
I'm not sure. That is why I'm asking. I've been inquireing about headers for a while now and I have found that there is very little information available about each product. I still feel like I'm in the dark about whether a header system is worth the bang for the buck for an (American) E36 M3. It doesn't seem like there is much of a market for them. I wonder why? It could be the 8hr+ of labor required for the install.
Headers will vary depending on quite a few factors. As mentioned above, catalytic converters play a large part, piping diameter, and the exhaust/muffler it is matted too. Most headers ALONE do not see that great of a gain, 5-10rwhp at most on an OBD-1 or blown car. Where you are going to gain is when you can match the cat flow rates with the header flow rates, the mid-pipe flowrates with the exhaust, ect....creating a perfect flow. Most people achieve this by removing the cats. Borla offers a great system for this, the race system. It is also a great bang for the buck. As far as the gains you will see, with a full exhaust, say the one offered by Borla, you are looking at a 25-30rwhp gain on an 0BD-1 car and about 30-35 on a blown car. OBDII will not see the same results. Just for reference, Alex Chan of Eurospeed Performance had an OBD-1 intake manifold, built head, SS Header, SS Racing Resonator, SS mid-back exhaust, and obviosly a chip and intake on his 99 M3. I believe there are a more few more things that I left out, but he was putting down 264rwhp on a DynoPak dyno. SO, for you OBDII people, the gains are there, just takes a little bit of money. The reason that there is not a market for them is there price. For a BMW, the average rule of thumb is $100/HP. Headers on a stock car do not show that kind of gain and more less make it $200/HP so why buy those when you can have something else like 3.5HFM that will get you more, or an OBD-1 swap. Look around at parts for old chevys and whatnot, there headers are like $250-$400 bucks. In reality, that is twice the HP, for half the cost of BMW headers that is why there is no market. As for the labor, its a PITA. VERY tight in there, and requires a signifcant amount of patience. Still is a wonder to me how AA could find the time or money to put into R&D on there project M3.
Wesley Camping
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