M50 vs M52 manifold

[m3f_(V)3_edf3e4e07b]

because for a lot of us, it DOESN'T. With other supporting mods, and the M50, I noticed NO lose in torque, and my dyno's support that...



let's see them :thumbsup2:



i'll add it to my collection.

[m3f_OahuMPower_17503f01cd]

I will post, but there were more mods added than just the M50... I might not even have the original dyno on my computer :hmm:


http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff273/eagle483/M3/Dyno%20Runs/HighRunComparisons.jpg


:edit:


those runs were done with the M50 on both... I dont have the original dyno from when I first bought the car.. might have to do a little more digging


DOUBLE :edit:


found this... this was my ORIGINAL dyno from when I first bought the car. Dinan CAI, HFM, BBTB, and Stg4 software, everything else was completely stock


http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff273/eagle483/M3/Dyno%20Runs/dyno.jpg

[m3f_(V)3_edf3e4e07b]

I will post, but there were more mods added than just the M50... I might not even have the original dyno on my computer :hmm:



http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff273/eagle483/M3/Dyno%20Runs/HighRunComparisons.jpg



:edit:



those runs were done with the M50 on both... I dont have the original dyno from when I first bought the car.. might have to do a little more digging





nice numbers! mods?



DOUBLE :edit:



found this... this was my ORIGINAL dyno from when I first bought the car. Dinan CAI, HFM, BBTB, and Stg4 software, everything else was completely stock



http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff273/eagle483/M3/Dyno%20Runs/dyno.jpg



only 206whp/203wtq w/ all those mods? or am i failing with reading comprehension?

[m3f_OahuMPower_17503f01cd]

nice numbers! mods?


evosport shorty headers

borla track pipe

UUC System U

Dinan CAI

Dinan HFM

Samco TB Boot

Dinan BBTB

M50 mani

UUC UDP's

Dinan Stg 4 software

AA o2 sims

fan delete


pretty much everything except cams, custom tune, and 24lb injectors


only 206whp/203wtq w/ all those mods? or am i failing with reading comprehension?


nope, reading correctly. Completely stock with the exception of the Dinan stuff

[m3f_mtechnica_b7123e5f8b]

His post wasnt misleading. When you add more SUPPORTING mods, one wont have the loss that was there.



I understand that you loose TQ with the mod and once its gone its gone. But when you add more mods, cams, headers, 3.5in intake ect ect you will have more than stock, if that is indeed what youre comparing it to.



M50 with supporting mods is a very good mod for our cars. :thumbsup2:



:roll:

[m3f_pbonsalb_ba5494e5cb]

evosport shorty headers

borla track pipe

UUC System U

Dinan CAI

Dinan HFM

Samco TB Boot

Dinan BBTB

M50 mani

UUC UDP's

Dinan Stg 4 software

AA o2 sims

fan delete



pretty much everything except cams, custom tune, and 24lb injectors







nope, reading correctly. Completely stock with the exception of the Dinan stuff



Different dynos may be part of the explanation. The later one is in STD, which reads 4% higher than SAE. That is worth 9-10 rwhp. The earlier dyno is in SAE and seems low for the mods -- stock M3 power with stage IV Dinan mods. Some dynos read low or maybe the car had minor issues.

[m3f_Leviathan_a48369329a]

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=261.16.017.00C

[m3f_I3MW_db2f80061a]

^ chump change :shifty:

[m3f_pbonsalb_ba5494e5cb]

Shrick did develop that as a compromise between the S/M50 and S/M52 manifolds. The S/M50 was available long before the S/M52 and BMW seemed quite happy with it until OBD2 came along. I'll guess the change was as much for emissions as for lazy US driver's who did not like to rev their engines to make power. It is probably a reasonable compromise for those who can afford it. While there are flow charts available showing that the S/M50 manifold outflows the Shrick, I have not seen a dyno comparison of the S/M50 versus the Shrick. One would be interesting, assuming the cars were otherwise similarly modded. Anyone know of such a dyno? I am curious, but am sticking with my M50 intake; besides, I already spent the $900 price difference on other performance mods.

[m3f_T2_58b439f67f]

OK so on a similar topic...I am about to install:



M50 manifold

24lbs injectors

SS style headers



Do I have to have software?

[m3f_and1bball4_d8391b8586]

His post wasnt misleading. When you add more SUPPORTING mods, one wont have the loss that was there.



I understand that you loose TQ with the mod and once its gone its gone. But when you add more mods, cams, headers, 3.5in intake ect ect you will have more than stock, if that is indeed what youre comparing it to.



M50 with supporting mods is a very good mod for our cars. :thumbsup2:





Yes, his post WAS misleading. Yes, when you add more mods you can regain the torque, but that doesn't mean that you don't lose torque by putting the mod on because you DO. Now, you can add other mods to recover it, but the fact is if you had those same mods w/ a s52 you would have more torque than with the same mods with a m50. It's literally physically impossible to NOT LOSE torque due to the same reason that it is impossible to not GAIN top end HP.

[m3f_jworms]

That's a very misleading statement.


It WILL lose a noticeable amount of torque in the 4500 and under range if you install the manifold. Sure you can make up for the loss by adding more mods but it would still have less low end torque than if you had the stock manifold and the same mods.


I think part of the problem is people not distinguishing between peak torque and low-RPM torque. The M50 manifold will yield more torque in certain parts of the rev range but it's not the part of the powerband that you use when driving the car on the street.


Yes, his post WAS misleading. Yes, when you add more mods you can regain the torque, but that doesn't mean that you don't lose torque by putting the mod on because you DO. Now, you can add other mods to recover it, but the fact is if you had those same mods w/ a s52 you would have more torque than with the same mods with a m50. It's literally physically impossible to NOT LOSE torque due to the same reason that it is impossible to not GAIN top end HP.


false. on an NA car, the m52 intake manifold eventually acts as a torque restriction when you add more mods in the mix. just take a look at the turner stage 4 NA kit and you'll see what happens when you add lots of mods without the m50 intake manifold. there are plenty of guys making 260-270rwhp and just as much, but usually more torque than anything with a m52 intake manifold.


also, something very important to note, it's not a "torque loss", it's merely a torque shift about 300-500RPMs later in the powerband. this is precisely what makes more rwhp. (btw, if we're talking about daily driving situations then i doubt that extra 300-500RPM shift is going to hurt you that much at partial throttle while putting around on the street. that's what gearing and throttle modulation is for). cams, headers, and lots of other mods rely on shifting the torque curve to the right to create more power. the m50 intake manifold isn't the only thing, but for some reason people only associate this stigma with it.

[m3f_pbonsalb_ba5494e5cb]

OK so on a similar topic...I am about to install:



M50 manifold

24lbs injectors

SS style headers



Do I have to have software?



The stock software may not compensate for the larger injectors (that you don't need with so few mods). Skip the injectors, skip the software. However, software will include an rpm limit increase that will help you take advantage of the M50 manifold and may also help reduce the low end power loss of the larger runner manifold.

[m3f_Leviathan_a48369329a]

... While there are flow charts available showing that the S/M50 manifold outflows the Shrick, ...



:hmm:...i find it hard to believe that schrick would spend lots $$$ on a piece that they sell for lots of $$$ when it's direct competitor, in the end, flows better...proof please

[m3f_WRXEATR_c6f1d80be6]

What if someone were to invent/design an intake manifold that had variable diameter intake runners.


I know it sounds funny, but think of it. If the intake runners had a smaller ID at low RMPS to maintain good airflow velocity/pressure, and they opened up to a larger ID as RMPS increased, we could have the best of both worlds......good top end power, and good low end torque.