Help me pick my next track pad

[IamFODI]

HPDE novice. Done a few events at NJMP Thunderbolt and Lightning; will likely stay on those tracks for now. My E90 6MT is mainly a street car. 245f/265r tires, PS4S or an endurance 200TW tire (AD09, R-S4, NT01, etc.). Öhlins R&T. Stock powertrain. No aero. Stock weight.

F8x front spindle & brake swap coming soon. Looking forward to that!

So far, I’ve tried Hawk DTC-60 and Ferodo DS2500, and disliked both. DTC-60 was inconsistent for me (I suspect because I couldn’t always keep enough heat in them) and easily overwhelmed the tires and ABS. DS2500 was a far better fit but didn’t quite have enough performance. Both had a lot less initial bite than I want, requiring me to get deeper into the pedal, and that sapped my confidence.

Might Pagid RSL29 be worth a shot? If so, that’d be my first choice as ECS sells it with lifetime replacement.

If not, how about PFC 08 or 11? Or would those be overkill?

I’m aware there are many other options and the best way is to experiment. What I’m hoping for here is to find the options that have the best odds of success so I can prioritize those.

Grateful for any feedback!

[Tbonem3]

I debated pfc 08 vs ds2500 for me e46. I went with the ds2500, so I would recommend the pfc to you. My $.02

[Estoril]

Right up front - I'm a 16-year believer in PFC. I'm on PFC-11s, but those may be overkill for just NJMP, as it isn't all that demanding on pads. I can recommend PFC-08, but I'll suggest that you first ask yourself what your priorities for a pad are. All brands, including PFC, make a range of pads with different characteristics to meet the needs of people with differing priorities. Initial bite, heat tolerance, wear rate, ability to modulate, braking feel and noise etc all things you will come to have specific ideas about.

Remember that braking force needs to be compatible with tire choice. A classic error is to substantially increase hot braking torque without pairing with tires with similarly increased hot performance. Tires stop cars and grip is not infinite.

[IamFODI]

Right up front - I'm a 16-year believer in PFC. I'm on PFC-11s, but those may be overkill for just NJMP, as it isn't all that demanding on pads. I can recommend PFC-08, but I'll suggest that you first ask yourself what your priorities for a pad are. All brands, including PFC, make a range of pads with different characteristics to meet the needs of people with differing priorities. Initial bite, heat tolerance, wear rate, ability to modulate, braking feel and noise etc all things you will come to have specific ideas about.

Remember that braking force needs to be compatible with tire choice. A classic error is to substantially increase hot braking torque without pairing with tires with similarly increased hot performance. Tires stop cars and grip is not infinite.

Agreed.

I think what I want most are

1. Strong feedback;
2. Strong initial bite; and
3. Behavior that's consistent over the temp range I'll see

...roughly in that order (though close).

Willing to sacrifice a bit on pad/rotor lifespan, and a lot on anything not related to track use (e.g. noise, dust).

In PFC's catalog, 08 and 11 are the only options for the F8x front calipers I'll have. I like 11 for the initial bite; I like 08 for the greater consistency in response vs. temp. So I guess the question is, how likely is it that 11 would be a handful to use with my tires? I don't mind overkill; I just don't want the pad to be hard to use. If the chance is high, then I'd lean toward 08; otherwise, 11 looks more like what I want.

Still eyeing Pagid RSL29 and RSL1 because of ECS's LRG. But RSL29 seems to get some flak for pedal feel, which would be a big downer for me; RSL1 looks much better to me on paper, but it seems to be an unknown in this community so finding feedback on it is hard.

[Estoril]

Agreed.

I think what I want most are

1. Strong feedback;
2. Strong initial bite; and
3. Behavior that's consistent over the temp range I'll see

...roughly in that order (though close).

Willing to sacrifice a bit on pad/rotor lifespan, and a lot on anything not related to track use (e.g. noise, dust).

In PFC's catalog, 08 and 11 are the only options for the F8x front calipers I'll have. I like 11 for the initial bite; I like 08 for the greater consistency in response vs. temp. So I guess the question is, how likely is it that 11 would be a handful to use with my tires? I don't mind overkill; I just don't want the pad to be hard to use. If the chance is high, then I'd lean toward 08; otherwise, 11 looks more like what I want.

Still eyeing Pagid RSL29 and RSL1 because of ECS's LRG. But RSL29 seems to get some flak for pedal feel, which would be a big downer for me; RSL1 looks much better to me on paper, but it seems to be an unknown in this community so finding feedback on it is hard.

I ended up on PFC-11s because I was on PFC-01 and they discontinued the pad shape (supposedly because of environmental concerns, but I can tell you that -01s were hell on hot wheels in the wet. It formed a ceramic-like coating that even oven cleaner couldn't remove). I moved to -11 because that was the PFC recommendation. -11 has strong initial bite (which I was hooked on from -01) but you could easily overpower good 200 TW tires with very late braking. -11 is easy to intuitively modulate and trail brake, but needs a full lap to come up to operating temperature, or you will have a drama moment. This is not an issue with PFC-11. -08 will have more pad life. I don't focus much on rotor wear - mine is normal and its a wear item (to me). I use PFC DD.

[bigjae46]

I ended up on PFC-11s because I was on PFC-01 and they discontinued the pad shape (supposedly because of environmental concerns, but I can tell you that -01s were hell on hot wheels in the wet. It formed a ceramic-like coating that even oven cleaner couldn't remove). I moved to -11 because that was the PFC recommendation. -11 has strong initial bite (which I was hooked on from -01) but you could easily overpower good 200 TW tires with very late braking. -11 is easy to intuitively modulate and trail brake, but needs a full lap to come up to operating temperature, or you will have a drama moment. This is not an issue with PFC-11. -08 will have more pad life. I don't focus much on rotor wear - mine is normal and its a wear item (to me). I use PFC DD.

I'm also a long-time PF01s user. I've been using Stoptech SR34s since I have stoptech calipers on both M3s which are PF01 clones but they are hard to find if not discontinued. I think later on the PF01s got a little nicer to wheels but yeah...it is like sandpaper glued to the wheel in every little corner.

I'm on Hawk DTC70s for the lifetime warranty which are close to a PF01 in terms of bite, feel, and trail braking modulation but they don't last quite as long. Which is not a concern on my 2575lb E46. But the DTC70 is no PF01. I've been considering just spending the coin on PF11s.

I'd be a little more worried on an E9X M3 which eats pads on stock brakes. E90 M3 on stock brakes did double duty at Road America years ago. My friend flew into WI, drove my E90. Then my E46 blew up and we were both driving the E90. That car did 20 sessions, we literally smoked 3 sets of pads - PF01s, DTC70s, and some cool carbon pads that we overnighted. I also torched a set of PF01s in 7 sessions. All of this on NT01s, not real sticky tires. A Pagid yellow, which I did not like at all, didn't last much longer.

So might be smart to stay on a pad you can get with a lifetime warranty and sacrifice something. Maybe use the DTC70s and keep an extra set on hand.

I think a BBK makes sense financially if you plan to track an E9X M3 for awhile...as much as anything track related makes financial sense. lol

[IamFODI]

I'm also a long-time PF01s user. I've been using Stoptech SR34s since I have stoptech calipers on both M3s which are PF01 clones but they are hard to find if not discontinued. I think later on the PF01s got a little nicer to wheels but yeah...it is like sandpaper glued to the wheel in every little corner.

I'm on Hawk DTC70s for the lifetime warranty which are close to a PF01 in terms of bite, feel, and trail braking modulation but they don't last quite as long. Which is not a concern on my 2575lb E46. But the DTC70 is no PF01. I've been considering just spending the coin on PF11s.

I'd be a little more worried on an E9X M3 which eats pads on stock brakes. E90 M3 on stock brakes did double duty at Road America years ago. My friend flew into WI, drove my E90. Then my E46 blew up and we were both driving the E90. That car did 20 sessions, we literally smoked 3 sets of pads - PF01s, DTC70s, and some cool carbon pads that we overnighted. I also torched a set of PF01s in 7 sessions. All of this on NT01s, not real sticky tires. A Pagid yellow, which I did not like at all, didn't last much longer.

So might be smart to stay on a pad you can get with a lifetime warranty and sacrifice something. Maybe use the DTC70s and keep an extra set on hand.

I think a BBK makes sense financially if you plan to track an E9X M3 for awhile...as much as anything track related makes financial sense. lol

Good points. Thanks for sharing them.

FWIW, I got multiple track days out of a set of DS2500, one of the most notoriously short-lived compounds for track use, so I'm probably a lot slower than you are. I'm assuming any legit track pad will be at least okay. But we'll see. Your warnings are appreciated and well taken.

I'm super leery of Hawks after my previous experiences, but you're not the first longtime PFC user who has told me they switched to DTCs and liked them. The LRG is definitely a massive benefit.

Speaking of which: ECS seems to have started carrying PFCs, but only a few SKUs. If they eventually add more, that'd be a slam-dunk (lifetime replacement). I emailed them asking if they're planning to add more. I'll post back if I hear anything.