Help a track noob prepare for the 2021 season

[r4dr]

IMO stomping hard on the brakes repeatedly after only getting up to 30-45 mph with no recovery time is a far cry from the track. On the Tail you were probably killing way more speed than you had to because you were on a public road, hence the whole point of finding the limit on a closed course. But just IMO.

[S14]

The tail of the dragon is a street. It’s nowhere near as the kind of pace you can have on track.

He did say he faded them there:

Yeah, I thought I remembered him saying something about tail of the dragon. Having driven Hwy 129 a dozen or so times, I think it could be harder on brakes than a track, especially on a heavier car like the E90. Tracks have more straights so the deceleration is higher for shorter periods of time, but on that road brake engagement is much more frequent so the brakes never get a chance to really cool. I dunno, maybe it's a bit of tomato/tomato thing.

OP, but some stock or sport pads from FCP, if you fade them in your first track day, then buy the track pads from FCP and now you have street and track pads you can lifetime warranty through them

[Estoril]

My opinion: Go straight to dedicated track pads. I got some advice from people and went with HPS pads, and was told I could just buy better pads once I got faster.

Well 3 track days later I've worn completely through 1 set of front pads and have severe pad deposits. Just put in an order for a set of DTC-60s through FCP with the Black Friday discount

HPS and HP Plus have no business being on a track.

[IamFODI]

Thought I'd post back after a couple of events at NJMP Thunderbolt!

Really appreciate everyone's advice in this thread, especially talking me out of buying stuff. I love the way the car is set up now, nothing broke, and I'm VERY glad the car isn't more capable than it is. It thrills and forgives without burying my mistakes. Zero apparent cooling issues. PSF reservoir is dry as a bone. Tires held up really well. I wasn't tracking lap times, but my instructor at the second event was; based on his equipment, my PB was 1:46.41, for what that's worth.

The only real problem was the brakes. I went with DTC-60s and they worked fine but felt like crap. Low, slightly spongy pedal. Bleeding the fluid (SRF) made no difference. Swapping back and forth between OE pads and the DTC-60s, bleeding every time, yielded the same result every time: high and firm pedal with OE pads, low and mushy pedal with DTC-60s. AFAICT, the problem is that the Hawks fit a little loosely in the stock brackets/calipers, permitting more flex in the assemblies. Reached out to Hawk and FCP Euro for their feedback; either way I highly doubt I'll be running these pads again. Interested to hear input from you all on this as well.

Overall, though, tremendously positive experience. Looking forward to the next ones!

[kmbardin]

Really good points in this thread (albeit myself being months late) - last year I started bringing my E36 to the track and kept on throwing money into it trying to get faster, only to see guys in stock cars blowing me out of the water. Very eye-opening! This year I've focused on spending money on seat time instead of mods - it's felt really good. Helps with consistency too, l swear every time I went back to the track I had some change/addition so I had to re-learn the car in one way or another. Unfortunately my E36 has been down so far this year, so I've been tracking the E92 M3.. totally stock. I'm so impressed by these cars. The car is so far beyond capability-wise than myself as a driver.

[mik325tds]

Thought I'd post back after a couple of events at NJMP Thunderbolt!

Really appreciate everyone's advice in this thread, especially talking me out of buying stuff. I love the way the car is set up now, nothing broke, and I'm VERY glad the car isn't more capable than it is. It thrills and forgives without burying my mistakes. Zero apparent cooling issues. PSF reservoir is dry as a bone. Tires held up really well. I wasn't tracking lap times, but my instructor at the second event was; based on his equipment, my PB was 1:46.41, for what that's worth.

The only real problem was the brakes. I went with DTC-60s and they worked fine but felt like crap. Low, slightly spongy pedal. Bleeding the fluid (SRF) made no difference. Swapping back and forth between OE pads and the DTC-60s, bleeding every time, yielded the same result every time: high and firm pedal with OE pads, low and mushy pedal with DTC-60s. AFAICT, the problem is that the Hawks fit a little loosely in the stock brackets/calipers, permitting more flex in the assemblies. Reached out to Hawk and FCP Euro for their feedback; either way I highly doubt I'll be running these pads again. Interested to hear input from you all on this as well.

Overall, though, tremendously positive experience. Looking forward to the next ones!

Even though the DTC-60s shouldn't do that - some brake pads get spongy once the got really hot. It feels like you have air in the fluid but it really is the pad itself. The pads are still usable and after a while you might even get used to the feel. I recommend trying Performance Friction (I use Performance Friction 0918.11.19.44 for my E90 335d) pads in the front. The brakes will sound like a freight train but fading will be much less.
Eyes UP!

[IamFODI]

Really good points in this thread (albeit myself being months late) - last year I started bringing my E36 to the track and kept on throwing money into it trying to get faster, only to see guys in stock cars blowing me out of the water. Very eye-opening! This year I've focused on spending money on seat time instead of mods - it's felt really good. Helps with consistency too, l swear every time I went back to the track I had some change/addition so I had to re-learn the car in one way or another. Unfortunately my E36 has been down so far this year, so I've been tracking the E92 M3.. totally stock. I'm so impressed by these cars. The car is so far beyond capability-wise than myself as a driver.

Amen!

Even though the DTC-60s shouldn't do that - some brake pads get spongy once the got really hot. It feels like you have air in the fluid but it really is the pad itself. The pads are still usable and after a while you might even get used to the feel. I recommend trying Performance Friction (I use Performance Friction 0918.11.19.44 for my E90 335d) pads in the front. The brakes will sound like a freight train but fading will be much less.
Eyes UP!

Thanks. Definitely eyeing PFC.

The pedal issue I had seemed to get better with temp, though only slightly. Hawk told me these pads can be slightly more compressible than street pads, and I've read that E9x folks often have a softer pedal with track pads. I've also read a whitepaper that suggests pad compressibility decreases with temp. Maybe that explains some of it. I strongly suspect I never got them hot enough because I never reached a point at which their performance seemed to plateau.

Either way, it was disconcerting to see how much flex there was in the calipers with the Hawk pads. Hard to believe that wasn't a factor as well. Hawk acknowledged that the pads are just a bit small, saying it helps with knockback.

FWIW, both Hawk and FCP Euro were extremely helpful.

I got my hands on a set of DS2500s to try. Also planning on a set of SS hoses. If DS2500s don't cut it, I might try DTC-60s again; if I'm still not happy, PFC it is.

[r4dr]

I've got DTC-60s up front in another car and I'm so sick of them that I'm about to throw them in the trash. PFC pads should treat you much better, for as long as they still make them lol.

[IamFODI]

I've got DTC-60s up front in another car and I'm so sick of them that I'm about to throw them in the trash.

Interested to hear more, if you're willing to elaborate!

[IamFODI]

Had a chance to try DS2500s. Also swapped in stainless steel brake lines and did multiple bleeds (including ABS bleeds) with SRF. Much better overall, though not perfect. To recap, the DTC-60s felt like crap when cold but a hair better when hot, and bite was too high for street tires and not entirely consistent. With DS2500s, feel was good when cold and slightly soft when hot; bite was well matched to street tires and super consistent. Way less squeal, too, but still just a bit too much for DD duty IMO. Some mild NVH that feels like slightly uneven deposits. Swapping back to OE pads still felt like an improvement for the street. Better feel, comparable performance in street driving heat ranges, and zero squeal.

Still floored by PS4S longevity, at least at my pace. My fronts managed 25k street miles (including the Tail of the Dragon) and 3 track days before they needed to be replaced. Rears still have 40-50% tread after 15k street miles and 5 track days.

Was advised that my front tires look like they're rolling over more than they should, so maybe some higher pressure is in order.

First session of my third event, I was a bit of a mess. Basically tried to pick up where I had left off ~2 months prior, which... didn't work. One excursion onto Thunderbolt's generous runoffs snapped me back to reality. Thankfully, zero harm to life, limb, or hardware.

The rest of the event was pretty much flawless. Two very productive days. Drove most of it with DSC off, partly so I could experience the car, and partly so I could feel my mistakes. As it's currently set up, the car is pretty good at barking at me when I've done something stupid without seriously biting me for it.

Will probably do one more event this season. Hoping these DS2500s last through it!

[r4dr]

You need front camber, that's typical of every BMW that has seen a race track in the history of automobiles.

[tdott]

Bit late to the party here, but did you do the ABS/DSC bleed procedure when you were having issues with the DTC-60 pedal feel?
I ran the DTC-70 on stock brakes and didn't remember having that issue.

[IamFODI]

Bit late to the party here, but did you do the ABS/DSC bleed procedure when you were having issues with the DTC-60 pedal feel?
I ran the DTC-70 on stock brakes and didn't remember having that issue.

Thanks for chiming in. I hadn't done a DSC bleed then, largely because I didn't think it would solve the problem; I'd have thought air in the system would manifest as poor pedal feel with all pads, but it was fine with OE pads and only felt bad with the DTC-60s.

I might give the DTC-60s another shot for science. We'll see.

[IamFODI]

Just did what I think is my last event of the season. Thanks again, everyone, for your help. Had a blast this season.

r4dr was right: it's definitely camber time. Got some chunking on the outsides of my front tires on my last DE.

DS2500 was a good compound for my pace, skill level, and tires. I think I started to get a touch of fade at my most recent session, when the pads were heavily worn. Not a bad problem. Other than that, performance was just what I needed: bite was well matched to the tires and fairly even across a huge temp range. Will still be looking at other options next season, though. Longer pad life would be nice, and I really want firmer pedal feel.

Found some PSF spray on my coolant tank at my most recent DE. Might address that next season, too.

As an aside, the suspension was another high point. Great match for my skill level. It kept everything in control and sharpened the car's responses while retaining (or increasing?) the car's inherent noob-friendliness, and without making the car a ton more capable or hiding my mistakes. Made curbs fun, too.

Thanks again, everyone. Very much looking forward to next season!

[r4dr]

After going through this with some people lately, I would step up to a race pad sooner rather than later. DS2500 might still work at lower track temps, but they lose most of their feel/modulation. DS1.11, DS3.12, PFC08/11, are all good choices.