Csl for sale in Vancouver

[Icecream]

The audacity on this forum is astounding. Almost as bad as the Porsche guys.

Let's see it then. Where is this 15k mile CSL replica, excuse me, CSL killer, that was so cheap to build?

A new GT3 fits the bill...and cost less than this.
Like I said before, the value in this car is 100% not because of the driving experience or because its some inreplicable (its a word, trust me) car/experience, that's just complete bullshit (just like the value in an e30 M3 is not in the driving experience).

[wahsm]

It never ceases to amaze me the kind of arguments that can start over something as simple as someone posting a CSL for sale in North America. I think it is great to see one brought here and the fact that someone feels they can ask for that kind of price is a good thing. Means the market for our cars is pretty damn healthy and there is a strong interest in these cars still.

I would still do Porsche over a 550 though 😜. But that is because my use for the car would probably be different than yours.

[01SG]

I don’t think anyone here’s “trashing” the 550 Maranello, at least not in the same way you’re trashing Porsche. People like and are interested in different things than you. Shocker, I know.

I was not trashing Porsche in any way, I love Porsche. I was only offering my opinion on a meaningless, hypothetical situation which everyone seems to have the same boring answer to.

The comment about the 550 merely being a 3700 pound GT is absolutely trashing it. And, that's an incredibly stupid thing to say, considering we're all here for our love of a 3500 pound GT with half the cylinders...

Talk about reading comprehension..you agreed with my argument, Repoman. Look back. Furthermore, your argument changed, you said you could build a better car with the money. I doubt it, not without using basically all of the difference to have a car that won't hold it's value like an original. You would end up doing exactly what BMW did, because that much more hardcore and it would disqualify it from street use.

I acknowledged that you can get close, only that it costs a lot. And close is not the same, to have a 15k mile CSL beater, or even close, would still cost a fortune, at which point the real deal is only so much more, and with the originality that collectors want and the resale value to match. To truly match the experience of a low mileage CSL is much more than any of you are willing to make it out to be. Close is not exceeding.

In my opinion, it could only be done with original parts. My idea of a CSL beater, or close, is simply different. I don't believe that a bunch of much cheaper aftermarket parts makes it as special a package as what the factory put out.

This isn't going anywhere, so I'll bow out. I was only responding to someone who made it seem easy to replicate the CSL. In my opinion, it's not that easy. No one here has convinced me otherwise. Bottom line is, I think the car is worth it, and so does the market. It will probably sell quite a bit lower, around 150k, like what they're listed, granted, listed for, in Europe with similar mileage. No one asks what they actually expect to get.

[stephen]

And what is with the Porsche lust? I'd have a 550 Maranello at that price point.

The audacity on this forum is astounding. Almost as bad as the Porsche guys.

And you guys trash the 550 Maranello? Are you kidding? You must be kidding.

I don’t think anyone here’s “trashing” the 550 Maranello, at least not in the same way you’re trashing Porsche. People like and are interested in different things than you. Shocker, I know.

[repoman89]

The audacity on this forum is astounding. Almost as bad as the Porsche guys.

Let's see it then. Where is this 15k mile CSL replica, excuse me, CSL killer, that was so cheap to build?

No one has informed me how the weight reduction happens in a balanced manner, how they surpass the CSL so cheaply. You can get lighter wheels exhaust, suspension, brakes, and lose the back seat in a CSL too. I want to see this

A low mileage, factory original light weight car is likely just better to drive and better put together. You can't replicate that for cheap and that's a fact. The CSL has resale value that a replica wouldn't, making up for any difference. Simple as that.

And you guys trash the 550 Maranello? Are you kidding? You must be kidding.

And who here has even driven the CSL? I want first hand testimony. There was this same argument on the UK forum, and the majority came down on my side.

I really don’t think you’re actually understanding the conversation here, or you’re just building up straw man arguments on purpose for some weird reason. No one here is arguing what you think they’re arguing and it makes engaging with you tiresome.

All anyone has said is we can get close to the driving experience, and indeed close to (but not necessarily exceeding) the low weight of the CSL with a handful of well done mods. Airbox, seats, roof, battery, trunk and diffuser and then you have the noise and 150+ lbs of the weight loss (depending on whether starting from a sunroof or not). People here use aftermarket and replica parts where they’re high quality and make sense (Karbonius, Cobra and Recaro for seats, etc), and OE where those replicas aren’t good enough (trunk lid). That list is about $15k worth of stuff if you pick parts as I described, including labor for the roof and IMO gets most of the way there. Oh and make sure you add some weight back in for a RACP reinforcement so your car won’t tear itself apart like a Genuine Factory BMW Secret Sauce CSL (tm).

Here’s the full list of the BMW secret sauce by the way. Start with a ZCP to get a third of this stuff from the start: http://www.clubcsl.com/index.php/bmw...rt-differences

[yhp2009]

01SG I for one like the 550 Maranello
I get what youre saying that there is no clear "replica" of the CSL. Only approximations. And that the BMW factory balanced CSL is in many ways simply superior to our own attempts at copying it.
I think the difference in opinion is coming from the real magnitude of the difference and costs involved. There is some subjectivity in that discussion i think you'll finde different crowds have different answers

[01SG]

The audacity on this forum is astounding. Almost as bad as the Porsche guys.

Let's see it then. Where is this 15k mile CSL replica, excuse me, CSL killer, that was so cheap to build?

No one has informed me how the weight reduction happens in a balanced manner, how they surpass the CSL so cheaply. You can get lighter wheels exhaust, suspension, brakes, and lose the back seat in a CSL too. I want to see this

A low mileage, factory original light weight car is likely just better to drive and better put together. You can't replicate that for cheap and that's a fact. The CSL has resale value that a replica wouldn't, making up for any difference. Simple as that.

And you guys trash the 550 Maranello? Are you kidding? You must be kidding.

And who here has even driven the CSL? I want first hand testimony. There was this same argument on the UK forum, and the majority came down on my side.

[fullyflaredd]

The CSL is far more special than any garden variety m3...especially if it has been manual swapped. The airbox and several hundred pounds of lost weight are huge improvements each alone. It's like comparing a basic 911 to a gt3. You cannot turn a normal m3 into a CSL with a few mods. A replica airbox still isn't even the real deal. And how could you possibly lose the weight without making the car a mess? The CSL is much more special and surely a much better drive.

The car is worth whatever anyone will pay for it. Used cars are inflated, plus this is an iconic collectible.

And what is with the Porsche lust? I'd have a 550 Maranello at that price point.

No, a GT3 is far more different than a base 911 vs comparing a standard E46 M3 to a CSL. Different engine, suspension, brakes, almost everything is different. That is an awful comparison.

You can easily replicate the DRIVING experience of a CSL for far less money than 150k+. Even the aesthetics to a large degree. Many companies make very high quality replica parts. You can get a carbon airbox, a carbon roof, CSL trunk, CSL cams, nice leather trimmed Recaro seats, and it will be close if not less than the weight of a CSL with the same amount of power and not giving up anything in the way of quality. You can even get door cards, center console, etc from Karbonius, which anyone on here will tell you is of the highest quality. I'd go as far as to argue that you would not be able to tell the difference between Karbonius parts and original CSL parts if you did not know what to look for. The main difficulty is finding the interior, which as I mentioned you can just get quality leather recaros (FYI the CSL seats are retrimmed Recaros). Sure you won't have certain parts you can only find on a CSL or you won't have original parts, but it will be close to the same thing for far less. As I said, the only thing you're getting by paying this much is rarity and collector status, which if that is your thing, there is nothing wrong with it. If to you the experience means going to car meets and showing off that you have an original CSL, then sure, you can't replicate the experience. But as far as DRIVING goes, you can replicate or exceed the experience of a CSL for far less, as many on here have done.

FWIW I'm not arguing that this isn't worth the price, as surely someone will pay for it However even if I had the money, that person is not me.

[wahsm]

No comment on the price or potential value down the road, but I had to laugh that the price doesn't include the $395 documentation fee, like if they just included that in the price would it have mattered?

Those "documentation fees" are such a scam. With the list price being what it is, it is a bit of a joke they threw that in there. I make it a point not to by a car from a dealer that will not drop that. Very few keep it in when you are about to walk out the door.

[George Hill]

No comment on the price or potential value down the road, but I had to laugh that the price doesn't include the $395 documentation fee, like if they just included that in the price would it have mattered?

[Kcalhoun27]

Our definitions of 'easily replicable' differ. The airbox alone would be ten grand, on top of a super low mileage donor, that's 50 grand right there. And no matter what, it will never be a factory original car, and would never have the same finish or original history that's important in a collectible.

As for weight savings; how much of it is low hanging fruit that can either be stripped from the CSL, or disturbs the weight balance?

There is an airbox for sale right now for ~ $5500, so your statement is just incorrect. Beyond that, the parts to convert your car to a csl arent going to make up the difference between a decent M3 ($35k) and this car. There is no argument that this car is rare, but that isnt any justification in my eyes. The things that make a csl unique arent particularly driver friendly and would make a terrible daily driver. I appreciate it for what it is, but i dont mind holding it accountable for what it isnt.

if youve got the moeny to spend on that car, have a blast with it. Ian showed very clearly the mods can be done well and still keep the spirit of the csl alive. To that end, most people on this forum dont even like the car the way it was built, everyone thinks the smg has to go. So by that definition, most of you dont even want the csl that bmw built.

ill take my non-csl in a better color for a better price with a factory manual.

[yhp2009]

Also should point out that the "experience" is neither just about driving nor just about owning something exclusive/special. Its more like a spectrum between the two (maybe more) and some people lean more to one side than others depending on their personal preference.

[jet_dogg]

Well, there you have it. To some people, the "experience" means exclusivity, resale value and originality, to others it means how the car drives and behaves when it's used as it was intended. The latter part of the experience is easily replicated and even surpassed for well under half this price (low mileage car included). No one was ever arguing about the other points.

Yep, that clears that up. I guess driving means nothing haha.

I think that most of the people on here have a very limited interest in a ~3700lb GT car.

Precisely.

[stephen]

And what is with the Porsche lust? I'd have a 550 Maranello at that price point.

I think that most of the people on here have a very limited interest in a ~3700lb GT car.

[repoman89]

The experience of having an ultra exclusive, super low mileage car with pristine build quality from the factory cannot be replicated for any small amount of money. ....snip.... and any gulf in the price between that Frankenstein and a real CSL would be saved on resale value.

Well, there you have it. To some people, the "experience" means exclusivity, resale value and originality, to others it means how the car drives and behaves when it's used as it was intended. The latter part of the experience is easily replicated and even surpassed for well under half this price (low mileage car included). No one was ever arguing about the other points.