Singer DLS

[ViN]

https://youtu.be/Qghjl2tJsoo

The more I see cars such as the Singer DLS, the more I appreciate our cars for what it gives us (looks, feel, handling, performance. price) for the price. Guys like Ian (Obioban) and RobGill and I am sure countless others on here have builds that are so well sorted and whose cars I admire.

[Mr.wReckless]

Singer is certainly an interesting concept, and a breath of fresh air in doing their own analoge thing in the more and more desensitised mainstream motor manufacturing world. But I can't help but remain unexcited with a product that is priced astronomically. Granted it's handbuilt and unique, sadly I fear this awesome machine is going to end up gathering dust being owned as a fancy hor's derves by a classless millionaire "one-upping" his neighbour.. :/

[yhp2009]

wish the e46 had a "singer" version we can splurge on. Maybe more of a reasonable price range would definitely attract quite a few

[ra2fanatic]

wish the e46 had a "singer" version we can splurge on. Maybe more of a reasonable price range would definitely attract quite a few

You would get more people saying “I can get one for 15k with high mileage” rather than spend the money on a “singer-fied” M3.

[yhp2009]

I thought singers were mods added onto already-owned customers' 911s? I guess thats what i would want for the e46. Take my well cared for e46 to a "singer" and they inspect and give me a quote to make it CSL+

[usdmej]

we should be honest with ourselves, as much as we fancy OEM+ builds to be equivalent to what Singer does, it just simply is not


all mods that are truly Singer-esque in the form of custom wide bodies, bold interior choices, or FI are generally frowned upon on this forum

[maupineda]

we should be honest with ourselves, as much as we fancy OEM+ builds to be equivalent to what Singer does, it just simply is not


all mods that are truly Singer-esque in the form of custom wide bodies, bold interior choices, or FI are generally frowned upon on this forum

Totally agree, besides, the level of builds Singer do make them more of an OEM themselves rather than a tuner or restorer shop. The DLS is even more appealing tan a factory 992 GT3 in my eyes

[yhp2009]

we should be honest with ourselves, as much as we fancy OEM+ builds to be equivalent to what Singer does, it just simply is not


all mods that are truly Singer-esque in the form of custom wide bodies, bold interior choices, or FI are generally frowned upon on this forum

Yea just day dreaming of what could be. If singer actually decided to do e46 restorations how awesome that would be. Tho I prolly couldnt afford it haha

[Kcalhoun27]

Yea just day dreaming of what could be. If singer actually decided to do e46 restorations how awesome that would be. Tho I prolly couldnt afford it haha

Thats the real thing, the cost. Singer makes an amazing product, but theyre a quarter million to get in the door. I imagine if you had 250k to put into the car, a shop would take it on. But the e46 just doesnt have that draw, it would seem.

Heck, just the interior i want, which is basically OEM+ is around 10k and its not even remotely in Singer territory. I compromised with what i know ill be happy with vs price and it was still a healthy bill

[yhp2009]

Thats the real thing, the cost. Singer makes an amazing product, but theyre a quarter million to get in the door. I imagine if you had 250k to put into the car, a shop would take it on. But the e46 just doesnt have that draw, it would seem.

Heck, just the interior i want, which is basically OEM+ is around 10k and its not even remotely in Singer territory. I compromised with what i know ill be happy with vs price and it was still a healthy bill

The thing im specifically wondering is whether there is a way for a company to streamline and standardize the process of making a normal e46 m3 into a full on CSL+ replica. If they can offer this at a reasonable sub $100k mark it might be a draw for some in the near future. But again i am just [playing with ideas here so i cant say how realistic this all is

[Kcalhoun27]

The thing im specifically wondering is whether there is a way for a company to streamline and standardize the process of making a normal e46 m3 into a full on CSL+ replica. If they can offer this at a reasonable sub $100k mark it might be a draw for some in the near future. But again i am just [playing with ideas here so i cant say how realistic this all is

Totally understand. I would guess that sub 100k, youre not going to get the attention to detail that Singer is known for. But, i think a quality CSL rebuild, with every detail noted is well within that budget. I think you could probably get a respray in as well

[ra2fanatic]

The thing im specifically wondering is whether there is a way for a company to streamline and standardize the process of making a normal e46 m3 into a full on CSL+ replica. If they can offer this at a reasonable sub $100k mark it might be a draw for some in the near future. But again i am just [playing with ideas here so i cant say how realistic this all is

It's possible to make an OEM+ M3, but those individuals are far and few between. Every every one individual that'll spend $8k on CSL buckets, there'll be countless that would say that money could get them a 300k mile E46 M3. To get into any air-cooled vehicle at this point requires high 5 figures, and into 6. E46's don't demand that unfortunately and that'll ultimately prevent such an OEM+ shop to make that kinda build.

[Tbonem3]

Isn't it fun enough to mod our cars as we currently do? Seems like we already have one of the best all around cars, aftermarkets, and community/knowledge bases.

[Obioban]

The DLS is amazing, but it would be MORE expensive to do a similar thing to the e46 M3. The air cooled 911s are extremely rudimentary stock, and have a ton of room for improvement. The e46 M3 is more complex and starts off more optimized.

The air cooleds also benefit from being the same car for ~30 years, so you can pick and choose the best parts from various generations. Our only BMW based inspiration/part source is the CSL.

That said, I do think it's possible to take inspiration from the Singer. Specifically, the "everything matters" mind set is really what differentiates Singer from other tuners, IMO. It's easy to make a car better at a specific thing by compromising it for everything else, and/or making it feel crappy/race car. I really try, sadly often resulting in removing things I've done, to mod my car to that mindset.

To my mind, if a Singer style e46 M3 existed, it would be...
-Stroker S65 with ~500 hp at ~9000rpm
-full carbon body that looks stock (CSL), but with additional tire clearance, and/or full CF chassis chassis (Slonik is currently developing an e46 M3 CF monocoque, that is not infeasible). Weight should be sub 3000 lbs
-all vinyl or plastic surfaces inside wrapped in leather or alcantara
-double wishbone suspension conversion
-back seat functionality retained, as that's part of what makes an M3 an M3
-stock looking but stupidly light wheels (hopefully 18s :P), wider to take advantage of those fender flares
-sufficiently fancy brakes/suspension
-remove/replace wiring harness/trunk modules

Like the singer, though, there's a bit of Ship of Theseus going on-- when is an e46 M3 no longer an e46 M3? If you replace the chassis and the engine and the suspension geometry, is it still an e46 M3?
That said, not sure I care. A <3000 lb, 500hp at 9000rpm, 4 seater with glorious interior would be amazing, e46 m3 or not.

[Kcalhoun27]

Good points youve made. I think the beauty of these cars is that they are pretty well rounded and although they can be made better, its no small expense to do it. That, to me, says a lot about how good they are and why we enjoy them. The car youre describing is easily $150k, and i know that isnt the car id build if i was looking to spend that. An E24 M6 on the other hand…