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**Mr.wReckless** · 08-27-2021, 02:11 PM

Are you planning on renewing your cars suspension parts, or a nut & bolt resto-conversion to CSL, or improve your cars general handling? Budget or no cost spared?

I personally think the main CSL improvement over stock was with the glorious intake noise and impressive weight reduction, and without stepping on any toes, I don't think BMW was infallible in creating the best driving M3 when making the CSL, it was just less of a compromise than the regular M3.

I would personally spend my money getting a set of good coilovers (e.g. KW V2) or Koni yellows on new Eibach or H&R springs, new bushings and H&R sways and a good geo setup. Ditching the OEM electric seat for a decent bucket seat really transformed the car for me. Finally optionally a yellow tag rack and M-track mode coding for an enjoyable riding car without breaking the bank.

With CSL clones I see people do the front bumper, trunklid and diffuser, I see the intake box and I've recently spotted more and more bucket seats appear in the forums. For M3's in general it seems popular to do a manual swap and the occasional CWP to 4.1 or 3.91 swap for a more involving and frantic driveline.

I'm not trying to step on any toes, but swapping the suspension to CSL spec seems new, but I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with your build?

Regards

**HanSooloo** · 08-27-2021, 05:26 PM

In general, trying to get as close to a stock CSL setup, while trying to maintain a level of comfort. It seems like CSL’s parts would allow allow me to lower the car a bit as well in a more or less a “BMW official setup”.

On the question of using coil overs and other parts, I don’t understand what trade offs I would be making and how the ride would change. Definitely would love to learn more, so that I could make informed decisions. My stock M3 (non-CSL) rides rough enough to make it feel sporty, but soft enough to make it feel comfy. I know this is not a very scientific description, but that’s the best I can provide.

**Mr.wReckless** · 08-28-2021, 02:05 AM

I respect your wish for the official setup line, but doing it with OEM parts that involves king pins as well and it all starts to get costly for what I suspect isn't much of an improvement in neither sport nor comfort.

I'm not going claim being a suspension expert, but I wager a decent, high end coilover like Öhlins DFV will transform your ride in both sport and comfort at the same time in a vastly improved way over a CSL spec shock and spring, whilst giving you options for adjustability in both hardness and ride height, the only tradeoff I see is cost. Alternatively the Koni yellows with a spring would be a budget minded improvement IMO, albeit with a fixed ride height but with hardness adjustability.

There is a difference between a cheap coilover and a decent one. I'm running a KW XTA, which is definitely towards the budget end, but allegedly the same internals as the KW V2, which should be good enough for most people. It's slightly stiffer than the old, worn OEM shocks, but I can definitely feel that there's a quality to the damping.

Regards

**EthanolTurbo** · 08-28-2021, 02:06 AM

Originally posted by HanSooloo View Post

In general, trying to get as close to a stock CSL setup, while trying to maintain a level of comfort. It seems like CSL’s parts would allow allow me to lower the car a bit as well in a more or less a “BMW official setup”.

On the question of using coil overs and other parts, I don’t understand what trade offs I would be making and how the ride would change. Definitely would love to learn more, so that I could make informed decisions. My stock M3 (non-CSL) rides rough enough to make it feel sporty, but soft enough to make it feel comfy. I know this is not a very scientific description, but that’s the best I can provide.

In general, higher end coilovers will ride better and smoother than stock due to superior dampening characteristics and especially if the manufacturer and installer set them up correctly.

Also, if you want better ride characteristics and performance, switch to a lightweight 17" or 18" wheel so you have a good sidewall as well as minimal weight. You will improve braking, acceleration (big time), steering response, overall handling and agility, MPG and ride quality with one fell swoop. Also, highly recommend a tire with good ride quality paired with the above.

It is a massive difference that will be felt far more than bolting on some CSL suspension.

**jvit27** · 08-28-2021, 09:08 AM

Seeing the BS here about a more expensive damper being 'better'. This is patently false and nothing more that hyperbole spread by people who have no actual experience with specific products they're recommending.
The reality is coilovers are a use-case scenario, and comfort is largely a subjective thing.

The OE CSL setup has not been a popular route here - largely due to cost and availability in the states, but it's been very well regarded by the people who have done it for the exact reasons OP is considering. It will make standard spec cars actually sit lower than a CSL due to the weight increase. It won't be optimal since you're not running the Cup tires they're matched to, but it should still be more comfortable than most aftermarket setups. An Eibach/Koni setup will likely be similar and is more cost-effective considering they'll have a longer lifespan than anything you'll get from Sachs.

I currently have Ohlins R&T with CSL spindles, swaybars, etc. on my '04 and it absolutely does NOT ride as smooth as my bone stock '06 or even my other '06 with KW V3 (meh) despite being mOrE eXpEnSiVe. I've been around long enough to see most of the time people comparing their XYZ coilovers as being 'smoother' than stock but forgetting to acknowledge it was probably replacing worn out 100k mi stuff, so no **** Sherlock. And yes tires are a great investment too but dampers are the single most influential part of the suspension.

**HanSooloo** · 08-28-2021, 03:24 PM

So much to learn on my end, that's for sure! Appreciate all the great comments. So, looks like just using the CSL struts without equal CSL weight savings, the car would be a bit unbalanced.

I should have started by saying that I am also looking at some of the weight saving items in combination with the suspension setup. Specifically, getting the CSL bumper, removing hood insulation layer, light weight cabin air filter housing, CF roof, and CSL trunk lid. Can't bring myself to switch out the comfy leather seats with bucket seats, so that is my compromise point.

Given the above, wondering if any of the recommendations change?

What I am not sure of is also the process by which the modifications should be performed. I don't want to end up with an unbalanced car, that's for sure. Having said that, would it make sense to do them in this order:

Measure the stock ride height (mid-wheel point to bottom of fender ??)
Make the weight reducing changes.
Install coil overs, e.g., looking at Öhlin BMS MI30.
What next?

Step-4 and beyond is the part where it gets a bit blurry for me. From what I understand, CSL rides 10mm lower than stock M3. So, would I adjust the Öhlins to achieve that same measurement? i.e., if my current ride height from step-1 is A, adjust the Öhlins to A minus 10 ??

**Mr.wReckless** · 08-29-2021, 01:04 AM

4. : what next is a proper geo setup and corner balancing the car. A decent shop with experience and equipment in your area can help you with this.

Regards

**Tbonem3** · 08-29-2021, 10:27 AM

CSL parts for looks or less weight. Otherwise, aftermarket is better.

Ex:
headers - supersprint or fabspeed
susp - mcs or ohlins
Intake - karbonius
ecu - hassan afr or dyno vs. Csl base

**Ragincajun5220** · 08-29-2021, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by jvit27 View Post

Seeing the BS here about a more expensive damper being 'better'. This is patently false and nothing more that hyperbole spread by people who have no actual experience with specific products they're recommending.
The reality is coilovers are a use-case scenario, and comfort is largely a subjective thing.

The OE CSL setup has not been a popular route here - largely due to cost and availability in the states, but it's been very well regarded by the people who have done it for the exact reasons OP is considering. It will make standard spec cars actually sit lower than a CSL due to the weight increase. It won't be optimal since you're not running the Cup tires they're matched to, but it should still be more comfortable than most aftermarket setups. An Eibach/Koni setup will likely be similar and is more cost-effective considering they'll have a longer lifespan than anything you'll get from Sachs.

I currently have Ohlins R&T with CSL spindles, swaybars, etc. on my '04 and it absolutely does NOT ride as smooth as my bone stock '06 or even my other '06 with KW V3 (meh) despite being mOrE eXpEnSiVe. I've been around long enough to see most of the time people comparing their XYZ coilovers as being 'smoother' than stock but forgetting to acknowledge it was probably replacing worn out 100k mi stuff, so no **** Sherlock. And yes tires are a great investment too but dampers are the single most influential part of the suspension.

Please correct me if I am wrong here, but I am fairly confident that the csl dampers are shorter than stock, as they are designed for shorter springs. That is one advantage that they, and well designed coilovers have off a standard shock and spring solution.

The only aftermarket shock that I’m aware of that is shorter than oem, is the b8 shock from bilstein which I believe is not offered for this car.

I also have Ohlins and the ride is firmer, yet well controlled. There is that 20-30mph speed where the car gets a little bumpy, but haven’t attempted to dial it in.

for a coilover, im quite surprised it’s as controlled and compliant as it is. The impact harshness is unchanged over stock in my experience, and this is from an oem setup on a 15000 mile car

**Obioban** · 08-29-2021, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by HanSooloo View Post

So much to learn on my end, that's for sure! Appreciate all the great comments. So, looks like just using the CSL struts without equal CSL weight savings, the car would be a bit unbalanced.

I should have started by saying that I am also looking at some of the weight saving items in combination with the suspension setup. Specifically, getting the CSL bumper, removing hood insulation layer, light weight cabin air filter housing, CF roof, and CSL trunk lid. Can't bring myself to switch out the comfy leather seats with bucket seats, so that is my compromise point.

Given the above, wondering if any of the recommendations change?

What I am not sure of is also the process by which the modifications should be performed. I don't want to end up with an unbalanced car, that's for sure. Having said that, would it make sense to do them in this order:

Measure the stock ride height (mid-wheel point to bottom of fender ??)
Make the weight reducing changes.
Install coil overs, e.g., looking at Öhlin BMS MI30.
What next?

Step-4 and beyond is the part where it gets a bit blurry for me. From what I understand, CSL rides 10mm lower than stock M3. So, would I adjust the Öhlins to achieve that same measurement? i.e., if my current ride height from step-1 is A, adjust the Öhlins to A minus 10 ??

The CSL is ~300 lighter than stock. From the parts you’ve listed:
CSL bumper: 3-4 lbs
hood insulation: 0.3 lbs
cabin air filter housing: NLA (you can’t get it), but 3 lbs
roof: 5 lbs if you have a slick top, 45 if you have a sunroof
OE csl trunk: 0 lbs

So, not making a meaningful impact.

The Ohlins don’t have much travel. IMO their ride height should be set 100% to optimize bump/droop travel. The moment you start to set it with other criteria, you start to severely compromise them.

IMO, for what you’ve described as your wants, get TCK S/As with 300 lb front springs and 550-600 lb rear springs, and pair them with e36 hats (unless you plan to track, in which case get some street camber plates). They have enough travel that you can target csl ride heights, they’ll ride great, they’ll work properly at near stock weight, and they’ll last a long time. Add some adjustable end links to dial out the preload. Beef up the front sway and leave the rear sway stock.

…. get it corner balanced after it’s installed and settled.

**cornerbalanced** · 08-27-2024, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by Obioban View Post

The CSL is ~300 lighter than stock. From the parts you’ve listed:
CSL bumper: 3-4 lbs
hood insulation: 0.3 lbs
cabin air filter housing: NLA (you can’t get it), but 3 lbs
roof: 5 lbs if you have a slick top, 45 if you have a sunroof
OE csl trunk: 0 lbs

So, not making a meaningful impact.

The Ohlins don’t have much travel. IMO their ride height should be set 100% to optimize bump/droop travel. The moment you start to set it with other criteria, you start to severely compromise them.

IMO, for what you’ve described as your wants, get TCK S/As with 300 lb front springs and 550-600 lb rear springs, and pair them with e36 hats (unless you plan to track, in which case get some street camber plates). They have enough travel that you can target csl ride heights, they’ll ride great, they’ll work properly at near stock weight, and they’ll last a long time. Add some adjustable end links to dial out the preload. Beef up the front sway and leave the rear sway stock.

…. get it corner balanced after it’s installed and settled.

Old, old thread. Yes. Sorry haha, doing some research.

What are the benefits of the E36 top hats?

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Suspension and sway bar upgrade for CSL conversion

Suspension and sway bar upgrade for CSL conversion

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