Matt Farah of The Smoking Tire picks up an E46 M3

[Albino09]

I’m not sure values going up is a good thing 😜

I'd love to know why values of our cars going up could be anything but good. It's already at the point now that I could get out for what I paid 7 years ago, and I've been able to enjoy the car for 50k miles AND had a minor accident. Not that I'm looking to sell, but the knowledge these cars could be positive cash flow in the future if they needed to be is definitely better than the alternative, IMO.

[Nate047]

Same. He's had it for a long time, so that makes his a bit more interesting than a flawless museum piece. Before Matt he was probably the most well-known US automotive journalist with one too (correct me if I'm wrong).

Maybe the most well known, but tons of guys who know and test cars regularly have, or have had these cars. When I worked at Super Street about a decade ago (same publisher as Motor Trend and a hundred other books that are all gone now) there were probably a dozen or so rotating through the parking lot.

[humarahumara]

That's only my point. Though your preference is the vert and SMG, most people who are buying this car don't want that. And the market objectively reflects the fact. Most people want the lighter, stiffer, manuel.

I think the manual coupe thing is fueled by mostly the collector car market and then secondly by the enthusiast. There's no way in hell BMW could sell 8X,XXX manual e46 m3 coupes. The vast majority of buyers during the 01-06 run didn't want that and the market reflects that (SMG's, Verts etc). The reason why manuals are dying off if because the vast majority of folks don't want them. The shear limited # of manuals remaining fuel the market.
I'm fortunate enough to own 2 e46 m3. I know most folks probably think i got it completely wrong. (Maybe i do.) I own a SMG coupe and manual vert. Why? because when i'm cruising around town in the vert the 6 speed is way easier to control and modulate for a smooth fun ride. When i want go fast in the twisties that's where the SMG coupe shines. I love both and enjoy the transmissions for what they are.

[01SG]

And if one doesn't have a subjective preference for lighter, stiffer, manual transmission cars, what happens?

Are E46M cars only for those who have such a preference, and that's why BMW shouldn't have built SMG cars or heavier convertibles?

I mean, did you really start with "subjective preference aside" and then spend the rest of the post articulating a "subjective preference" for lighter, stiffer, manual transmission cars?

Or did I miss something?

I had a subjective preference for a 4-seater drop top that I don't need two feet to drive. And I'm not alone. But I recognize that as a subjective preference, not some authoritarian pronouncement of betterment. Forumland is what adds the air of authoritarian pronouncement.

maw

That's only my point. Though your preference is the vert and SMG, most people who are buying this car don't want that. And the market objectively reflects the fact. Most people want the lighter, stiffer, manuel.

[Casa de Mesa]

If you’re tracking or street driving, it should only be about which you enjoy more.

Missed this. But yes ^^that.

Just do you. However you do it.

[Casa de Mesa]

I'd rather win by at least a few inches. And preferably a mile. Each and every time.

[lemoose]

Ask any racer. Any REAL racer. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning.

[maw1124]

That's good intel. I'm hoping what we are seeing now is too much money chasing too few vehicles (inflation). But I may be spoiled having purchased during historical downturns. People had all kinds of houseflip money then all of a sudden they didn't.

I've long since thought a lot of these car dealers (like the ones they discussed in the video) that sprang up in the last 10 years can only exist in a low interest world. When carrying costs and floorplan financing gets expensive, where are those cars going and what happens to the value of that inventory? The money can't stay free forever while you wait on the right buyer to pay your inflated selling price. It's only worse if you paid too much for the inventory in the first place because the financing was free.

E30Ms and E46M I think keep going but I'm not so sure about the others. I hear precious little buzz about them but the off market sales would be a reason why. The BMW circles are more enthusiastic than the MB or Audi camps, from what I've seen (second only to Porsche, who are rabbid fans), so that may lift all boats.

maw

EDIT… on this score, let’s see how this one does… https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2006-bmw-m5-109/ … great car for the right money

[Epoustouflant]

I've watched this, and you guys have helped me see something here... that is, I think the flock to E46M cars will open opportunities for people who may want, e.g., a C63 AMG, or a E9X Sedan, or even an E36M or V10 M5/M6. This will end up being talked about almost like the only naturally aspirated BMW worth having besides the E30, which of course is as wrong as the day is long but it will create some opportunities. Other cars will hit their deflation adjustment AND their E46M shine adjustment at the same time.

I've seen this with other cars and it's really funny how there's very little rhyme or reason to it -- just market herd mentality. People were all over the MB 560 SEC and the SL 500/600 Silver Arrow cars -- until they realized there was an old school Benz with Porsche DNA, and now people act like they don't even remember the "other" old Benzes. Cars just get forgotten when the herd goes after something else. And by the way, that Porsche DNA Benz went absolutely vertical.

By 2025, these will be going vertical for under 100k mile examples and some great cars will be forgotten. I think this is only getting started. $.02.

maw

The issue here is all M cars have vastly appreciated - even the sewers of E36 M3 rust buckets.

E9X M3 Sedans are all 30k + cars, even with absurd mileage - they are already beyond E46 median value.

The E6X is the one with most variance from the bulletproof'ing required to keep these on the road - but the market is mostly filled with crappy examples. From experience, quality V10s are sold off the market for higher valuations.

This is affecting everything with an M badge.

We'll all end up having to buy BRZs to trash around for cheap if that's our goal.

[Obioban]

Most racing series these days mandate trans type, so rarely do you choose for a competitive advantage.

If you’re tracking or street driving, it should only be about which you enjoy more.

[maw1124]

I agree with all that... most of these guys came up hard... but they unanimously agree if you want to bring the car around the track the fastest, skip the other pedal. I don't know... I just listen and try to learn.

My tone might have been off... I don't look down on anyone (and if so, I apologize)... I'm just clear what my perspective is based upon, and it's not the guy rowing gears because he thinks it's cool... it's the one who knows it's nostalgic even if inefficient.

maw

EDIT... now I see your point... by "REAL" I didn't mean monied... I meant competitive no bones, whatever gets the car around the track faster

[Casa de Mesa]

And the funny thing is, the REAL race car drivers I know (you know, the ones who employ people, pay all the bills and race for money -- not these weekend, feel good guys) agree with me.

maw

Zero ill will intended here, truly maw. You're someone I really respect on this board.

I couldn't agree less with the bolded part above. This comment is spoken from the perspective of someone who has never raced, but only knows a couple guys that race. I would argue those weekend racers you also spoke of (the ones scraping every nickel, running brakes pads down to backing plates and cording tires because damnitalltohell there's 1 more lap left in them) are more of a racer than the exceptionally fortunate, remarkably lucky and extremely well-heeled few that can say they pay the bills by rowing gears and trading paint.

It takes one thing to "make it" in racing in this country above all other things: money. And a collosal shit ton of it, regardless of whether that cabbage comes from your own personal fortune, a sponsor, a lottery ticket, a drug dealer or a sugar daddy. Shit, maybe you dug up Hoffa's satchel! Further, all of those avenues also require enough depth in that money well to keep the skids sufficiently greased for a period of YEARS. Enough time for a racer to prove their worth on the track and in front of a microphone. They have to be able to sell.

That's the reality of racing and REAL racers.

-Casa

[maw1124]

I’m not sure values going up is a good thing 😜

I don't like the values going up, I want a coupe...

You know, I thought it was at first. But for those of us who don't plan to sell / have our forever car in the E46 M3, it doesn't really do anything for us does it?

I've watched this, and you guys have helped me see something here... that is, I think the flock to E46M cars will open opportunities for people who may want, e.g., a C63 AMG, or a E9X Sedan, or even an E36M or V10 M5/M6. This will end up being talked about almost like the only naturally aspirated BMW worth having besides the E30, which of course is as wrong as the day is long but it will create some opportunities. Other cars will hit their deflation adjustment AND their E46M shine adjustment at the same time.

I've seen this with other cars and it's really funny how there's very little rhyme or reason to it -- just market herd mentality. People were all over the MB 560 SEC and the SL 500/600 Silver Arrow cars -- until they realized there was an old school Benz with Porsche DNA, and now people act like they don't even remember the "other" old Benzes. Cars just get forgotten when the herd goes after something else. And by the way, that Porsche DNA Benz went absolutely vertical.

By 2025, these will be going vertical for under 100k mile examples and some great cars will be forgotten. I think this is only getting started. $.02.

maw

[DoubleSidedTape]

Whether it's the case here or not, no idea, but I know back seats were crammed into some cars to lower insurance rates.

That’s right up there with “red cars cost more to insure” in terms of its relationship with how insurers actually price things.

[shibui]

I'm also looking forward to hearing what he and Zack do with their cars. I'd REALLY love to know more about what Steve Dinan did to Zack's suspension.

Same. He's had it for a long time, so that makes his a bit more interesting than a flawless museum piece. Before Matt he was probably the most well-known US automotive journalist with one too (correct me if I'm wrong).

Would like to see the car go at a SoCal Bimmer track day at Buttonwillow or Chuckwalla, though he said in a previous podcast he would like to keep it fairly streetable vs gutting out the interior and putting a cage in.