E46 M3 compared to other sports cars you've driven

[Casa de Mesa]

Consensus in Porsche circles is beginning with the 991 chassis they had the same issue that BMW M had with the E9X chassis... that's designing an engaging driver focused car for a group of buyers who are not particularly good drivers or very focused... people who wanted more digital gizmos and luxury...

Yeah, I've heard pretty much the same. Which is why the vantage point from my buddy was so compelling for me.

I have time behind the wheel of 996s. Jumping out of the driver seat of my car and immediately into a friend's 996 Carrera 4S, the steering definitely felt over boosted and a dead spot closer to center. I much preferred the standard-rack E46 M3 to that of the 996 Carrera 4S. I also prefer the interior in the E46 by leaps and bounds.

[maw1124]

Consensus in Porsche circles is beginning with the 991 chassis they had the same issue that BMW M had with the E9X chassis... that's designing an engaging driver focused car for a group of buyers who are not particularly good drivers or very focused... people who wanted more digital gizmos and luxury... "bloated" and "disconnected" are the words that end up being used, perhaps overused... so 997s are sort of the last driver focused models, unless you're in something with the letters G and T (GTS, GT2, GT3, whatever, I don't even keep up because I'm not a Porsche guy)... which is also why when comparing to E46M I disregard all turbo cars and everything after 997... but I guess given the OP's question those comparisons are fair game for others... I do know a lot of serious, experienced, track car guy types who swear by their GTwhatever Porsche 911s to be fair.

Did any Nizmo GTR make anyone's comments? That's another one people like to toss into the hat.

maw

[Casa de Mesa]

Well my car wasn't stock and he agreed after having driver seat time in the m3 as well. Say what you will but compared to his near 400hp m5 mine was still better all around though it does share some of the same viscerality which I like and is lost in modern cars.

FWIW and regarding the bolded comment above. I literally just got off the phone with a buddy of mine who has a nice E36 M3. It is mildly modded and sits on coilovers. He test drove a '19 (or maybe '18?) Carrera S this morning. His comment was that it felt numb, isolating and digital compared to his M3. His thought was that the Carrera was a comfortable, grand touring car. But it's still a 911 - I would have expected him to say it was a more engaging car.

I say this not to solo out dogg with my comment, but to add a data point to the conversation. My buddy is a guy who has owned a ton of cars and has a ton of track time.

[jet_dogg]

It must be a beater because mine was elite better and more engauging than the e46, it was raw if you know what I mean....more like a souped up E36 M with more pop...nice looking too.

Well my car wasn't stock and he agreed after having driver seat time in the m3 as well. Say what you will but compared to his near 400hp m5 mine was still better all around though it does share some of the same viscerality which I like and is lost in modern cars.

[Silbergrau metallic]

Love the E46 but having seat time in 911 turbos and a brief stint in a 991 GT3, well...

https://youtu.be/Wowyd09KSs0

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I love Porsches, never had the opportunity to drive a Turbo, but those GT3's are awful cool, it's just really hard to justify that $175,000 to $250,000 price tag. I guess I'll just have to wait for my buddy to make me an offer I can't refuse when he decides to sell it.

[Phoenix///M3]

Love the E46 but having seat time in 911 turbos and a brief stint in a 991 GT3, well...

https://youtu.be/Wowyd09KSs0

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[lastMleft]

My buddy has a Frank something rather built e34 m5 that's pretty fun to drive though I wouldn't say it's e46 level. It does deliver shades of the e46 though and is satisfying to rev out.

Funny about the miata, I've always been a 90s japanese car guy and they've all been ugly to me except the first gen. The merlot anniversary on bbs would be in my garage if I had a storage facility.

New one doesn't look bad but proportions are goofy truncated with the high ass.

It must be a beater because mine was elite better and more engauging than the e46, it was raw if you know what I mean....more like a souped up E36 M with more pop...nice looking too.

[strummr]

I would place the E46 M3 toward the top half of the most engaging/fun cars to drive that I've experienced. I currently have 4 cars, incl. a max-tuned for stock turbos, 991.2 Turbo S, and a Mk7 GTi... but I usually find myself reaching for the M3 keys most often. Similar to the considerations bet. manual vs DCT, AWD vs RWD... it's more of an analog engagement - rowing the gears, being more thoughtful about hitting apexes...etc. The GTi is more 'nimble' and feels more at ease being thrown around (SE, manual, perf pak), but the E46 is nimble while being super stout with suspension/grip. (I've had a manual, first-gen CRX Si - which probably was the most 'nimble', sporty car I've driven) I've gone through a fairly eclectic selection of cars, and near-race spec bikes the past decade - most were V8, manual, RWD until the B6 S4 (AWD) and first non-V8 was the R35 GT-R... but here's a list of what I'm comparing the current E46 ZCP M3 manual with almost everything modded (it started as a Dinan S3) to: E39 M5, E92 M3 6mt, B6 S4 6mt, A3 6mt, C6 Z06 'vette, R35 GT-R (alpha 12+), 997.2 Turbo S, 991.1 Turbo S, 991.2 Turbo S (and of course the requisite V8 mustangs, trucks and SUVs in there).

[FFWD]

Here's how I compared my Miata and S2000 in a motorcycle forum when we started talking about fun sports cars. I left out all the others because they're pretty much irrelevant compared to these two. TLDR, I'd probably get another Miata (next time an NC) before I got another S2000:

1990 Miata - hands down the most FUN car I have ever driven. Slow as molasses, but puts a smile on your face. Kind of like riding a scooter for the very first time, except it doesn't get old. Early generations had super low window sills, which made it feel like you were in a go kart. Shifter is the absolute best, basically only need some wrist action. Stock suspension is OK, but gets great with shocks and springs. I had Racing Beat subframe connectors which stiffened it up even more. You can increase the power by bolting on a low pressure turbo, supercharger without touching the bottom end, or do an LS V8 transplant, but that's getting expensive to do it right. This was so long ago I don't remember anything being outrageously expensive. Then again I was young and had more disposable income.

2000 S2000 - hands down the most capable TRACK car I have ever driven - completely stock! You'd think it's just a fast Miata, but they're nothing alike. The tall window sills make you feel like you're sitting deep inside it, almost like a horse with blinders on (well, I'm 5'5"). For the first few weeks I kept short shifting it at 7 or 8k, because I couldn't believe a car could rev that high. I removed the air filter cover to expose the factory cone filter, and the intake sound is glorious. No need for an exhaust at all. The car is telepathic on the track, and its tail happiness helps to get you through the slower corners, but you need to watch it in the long sweepers. No problems at all after beating on it for a full summer day, it idles steadily, as if you just came from the grocery store. On the street, it drives like a Civic below 6000 RPM, then VTEC kicks in and you need to watch your traction if it's wet or cold. I had no problem with snow tires in the winter. All the stories of people who wrapped theirs around trees were probably guys that moved up from front wheel drive Civics and didn't understand how to drive RWD properly, especially, as mentioned, with its (playful) tail happiness. Only had it a year or two and sent it to Honda dealer for service and don't recall prices being ridiculous. Was still under warranty too. Watch out for grinding on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift (I think) at high RPM - there was a TSB for to replace the synchros, not sure if it's covered outside of warranty, so make sure it's already done.

[Toby22]

E46 m3 seating position and dimensions of the car made it feel Camry-like compared to say, an S2K or Cayman. Took some time for me to adjust losing that “cockpit” feel. That S54 is what set this car apart for me

[t44tq]

My E46 is my daily (for now), but it's my daily because it's so much fun to drive. I have a more practical car to daily, which is a lot more comfortable and quiet, but the M3 is just a lot more engaging.

I also have an S54 clownshoe- that car is way more fun to drive than the M3, but in terms of driving experience, the shoe kind of makes me nervous when I drive it. Going fast in the shoe is kind of a sweaty hands experience, while the M3 feels more composed.

I've driven lots of different sports cars and other cars. The shoe is a lifetime car, not going to sell it. The M3 is good, but if I can do it, I'll replace it with a 911.

Most of the modern supercars that I've driven are way, way too fast for the street, which makes me interested in them only for track use, in which case, I'd rather have a real race car- 997 Cup, 458 Challenge or something like that.

[Nate047]

I actually don’t know anyone who uses these as a primary car. More often they’re the 3rd or 4th f*ckaround car. And who likes to do that alone?

maw

I daily mine but TBH I would rather daily something else. Parking situation dictates I can't add another car until we move. That being said, it actually is a pretty decent daily if you don't give a shit. I pack mine full of stuff all the time, I don't have any friends though so the back seat has probably seen more wheels and tires than people.

[stephen]

Miata RF Club is another ridiculously fun car that I've been able to spend some time in and on back roads it is a great go cart plus now it looks better than it ever has in the past. To me the prior generations are ugly. I'd mod the crap out of the Miata and make it the best go cart ever.

I’m curious, why the RF over a soft top Miata or GR86?

I think a s54 swapped E36 would be the sweet spot.

I am a bit biased but it’s the sweet spot for me. I would love to compare it versus a Euro M3.

[fullyflaredd]

Have owned several E36 M3's, E30 M3, Z3 M coupe, Z4 M coupe, E90 M3, Lotus Elise and S2000 CR.

By far the most fun to drive was the S2000. Even more so than the Elise. The Elise was fun and engaging and you felt everything, but it felt like a very serious weapon built just to attack corners whereas the s2000 felt playful and tossable, if that makes any sense. Only place the s2000 fell short was it's steering was somewhat numb, but it honestly never bothered me. Both had high end 3 way dampers FWIW.

I dont care much for practicality in my cars as I probably drive less than 2k miles a year (and over 1k is probably to the track and back). The e46 m3 is very fun, however it is compromised because it is meant to do many things, whereas pure sports cars such as the s2000, Elise, or even a 911 are more focused. That is not to say the e46 doesn't offer a close or sporty experience. With good dampers, brakes, some power mods, weight reduction and a carbon airbox for that glorious sound, you can have just as much fun in it as cars worth many times the price. Main downside of the e46 IMO is that it is still a little piggy in stock form. I think a s54 swapped E36 would be the sweet spot.

Also E46 offers great value compared to what else is out there. Maybe not so much anymore as clean examples are getting pricey, but when you compare it to what new or used cars are available for similar prices, very few cars come to mind and several are M cars (brz/gt86, ND, s2000, E86 M coupe, E9x m3, gt350, civic type r, 987)

[jet_dogg]

I always wanted an Avus Blue one but IIRC they only made like 200 of those. If I found a good one today this car might be trade bait.

maw

My buddy has a Frank something rather built e34 m5 that's pretty fun to drive though I wouldn't say it's e46 level. It does deliver shades of the e46 though and is satisfying to rev out.

Funny about the miata, I've always been a 90s japanese car guy and they've all been ugly to me except the first gen. The merlot anniversary on bbs would be in my garage if I had a storage facility.

New one doesn't look bad but proportions are goofy truncated with the high ass.