E46 M3 compared to other sports cars you've driven

[maw1124]

For me, torque is a negative. Low torque, high HP/revs means you have to work the car over to get the most out of it, which makes it more involving.

I don't I'm alone in this-- all the cars that are "best drivers cars" are low torque, high HP/revs-- Miata, integras, GT3s, S2000, NSX, e30 M3s (any real M car), ferraries, F1s, etc.

Torque is for lazy cars :P

You're not alone. Everyone knows wringing the car's neck to get power out it is what most people consider "fun to drive." I don't always want to work that hard. I like effortless power everywhere in the band, which is why my favorite is the S55 AMG. If your neck and spine don't snap back, what's the point?!

But to your point, it's also too big to toss around, because ... I don't want to work that hard. My E5E is next -- goes like a Benz and handles like a Porsche. It's about the same size as these with more torque and will stay GLUED to these almost anywhere. Then this car, and then the beater Allroad 4.2. But you can't really drive any of them as hard as this one because you run out of road real fast. Same for the 911 turbos. By the time you get into the power you've run out of room.

;-D

maw

[Obioban]

IMO, weight is the most important. By taking out weight, everything else improves- acceleration, braking, etc. A lot of newer cars are simply way too heavy.

Now I sound like a hypocrite, driving a 3800 lb. M3 Cabriolet, but my shoe is around 3050 lbs and more fun to drive. The Porsche 991s really made it to be a GT car, not a sports car. They're simply too big and too heavy- you can fix the suspension, but it's hard to change the dimensions and hard to lose significant weight.

I almost bought a Corvette Kart for that reason- low weight. But thought that it would be way too impractical and hard to live with. Like a 4 wheel motorcycle.

Best 911 to date, IMO, was the 997.2 GT3RS 4.0.

The McLaren F1 is the ultimate expression of that philosophy, which is why it's my ultimate car.

Weight is HUGE for sure. That's why I'm put so much effort into making my car lighter (3081 lbs with a half tank as she sits today)!

But... I'm not sure size isn't equally/more important. The bigger the car, the less you can take a racing line within your lane. There's just less room to play.

[Obioban]

For me, torque is a negative. Low torque, high HP/revs means you have to work the car over to get the most out of it, which makes it more involving.

I don't I'm alone in this-- all the cars that are "best drivers cars" are low torque, high HP/revs-- Miata, integras, GT3s, S2000, NSX, e30 M3s (any real M car), ferraries, F1s, etc.

Torque is for lazy cars :P

[maw1124]

This is interesting... I'd go (1) size; (2) weight; (3) transmission; (4) engine character (mainly torque); then (5) steering. Oddly enough, that's BECAUSE of the E46M.

I had larger, much more powerful cars with torque converters and paddles when I bought this one, and this car is way more fun to drive with the SMG even. I'm comparing zero cars to manuals because I won't drive a manual any more than I have to in a pinch. But this little high output motor with its uber flexible transmission won me over (though I wish more of that power was lower in the band with more torque). It ain't DCT quick but it's quick enough. 5v per cylinder might make it sound better but that's just being picky.

maw

[t44tq]

IMO, weight is the most important. By taking out weight, everything else improves- acceleration, braking, etc. A lot of newer cars are simply way too heavy.

Now I sound like a hypocrite, driving a 3800 lb. M3 Cabriolet, but my shoe is around 3050 lbs and more fun to drive. The Porsche 991s really made it to be a GT car, not a sports car. They're simply too big and too heavy- you can fix the suspension, but it's hard to change the dimensions and hard to lose significant weight.

I almost bought a Corvette Kart for that reason- low weight. But thought that it would be way too impractical and hard to live with. Like a 4 wheel motorcycle.

Best 911 to date, IMO, was the 997.2 GT3RS 4.0.

The McLaren F1 is the ultimate expression of that philosophy, which is why it's my ultimate car.

[Obioban]

Well we are all different, but I see your enthusiasm for the e46 I like em too but I like the old school M5 better even the old ones like the e28 with a built suspension they are fun to drive not fast but fun....👍🏽

I believe it.

e28 M5 is remarkably close to e46 M3 dimensions.... and lighter :P

IMO how fun a car is to drive is determined by, in order of importance...
Size
weight
steering feel
transmission type
engine dynamics (not power)
chassis feel
engine power

e28 M5 is small, light, not the best steering feel (but miles better than anything sold today), always manual, great engine dynamics, good chassis feel, sufficient engine power.

[lastMleft]

Well my car wasn't stock and he agreed after having driver seat time in the m3 as well. Say what you will but compared to his near 400hp m5 mine was still better all around though it does share some of the same viscerality which I like and is lost in modern cars.

Well we are all different, but I see your enthusiasm for the e46 I like em too but I like the old school M5 better even the old ones like the e28 with a built suspension they are fun to drive not fast but fun....👍🏽

[jet_dogg]

Yep, and vacuums, tools, knives.

[oceansize]

Well I appreciated that the oven is from Germany, nice touch.

[Obioban]

Why didn't you just pay to have it delivered bro?

I'm trying to enjoy my free time and run as little errands as humanly possible.

$3000 cheaper this way. Seemed worth a little drive

[jet_dogg]

Why didn't you just pay to have it delivered bro?

I'm trying to enjoy my free time and run as little errands as humanly possible.

[Obioban]

I just thought the oven was funny.

[jet_dogg]

Track shit excluded, so now we got three outliers now thanks for your input.

I'm not sure what posting an oven in a wagon has to do with anything though 😂

[Obioban]

I've never carried more than three people and that was only a couple of times, nor have I ever seen four people let alone five people in an m3 with a trunk full of "stuff". This is one of those oft repeated knee-jerk responses to the virtues of the m3 that fail to play out in real life. I'd really like to know how often people are doing this because it's definitely not a Socal thing.

I don't even like anyone in the back so my car is basically a two seater. Golf clubs for the older guys sure but people don't buy the m3 for practicality concerns, it's just a benefit they like to bring up on discussion boards.

The M3 was my only car for almost a decade. Got LOTS of back seat and trunk use back then.

I now have a kid, that's in the back regularly. Stroller in the trunk.

Every single time I go to the track my 4 track tires are in the back seat and my tools/jack/chair/tent/spares are in the trunk.



And I have a fuel cell to put in the trunk for rallies


.... and I picked up an oven in my other M3 earlier this week



My M3 back seat and trunk has gotten a LOT of use over the years. In fact, at this moment, my back seats might have more miles with asses/tires in them than my front seats, since I replaced the front seats a couple of years ago. Being so practical means I can use the car much more often, and don't have to tow it to the track (which almost ruined tracking for me, I hate towing so much).

[maw1124]

Yeah, I've heard pretty much the same. Which is why the vantage point from my buddy was so compelling for me.

I have time behind the wheel of 996s. Jumping out of the driver seat of my car and immediately into a friend's 996 Carrera 4S, the steering definitely felt over boosted and a dead spot closer to center. I much preferred the standard-rack E46 M3 to that of the 996 Carrera 4S. I also prefer the interior in the E46 by leaps and bounds.

And this is my experience almost exactly (didn’t catch the steering, but it didn’t captivate me either), having helped a close friend shop and buy his 997 4S convertible. I’m driving it around thinking “yeah I’ll keep my M3 over this, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.” Interior felt cheapish (which is saying something because my M3 feels cheapish coming from my other cars), it didn’t feel any faster or sharper, back seat was a joke — I just didn’t get it. 997 Turbos are a completely different animal.

maw

PS… the other car I thought was a fair comparison AND an upgrade over this car was an ‘03 SL55 AMG… holy sh*t… with 500+hp still raw and on command with no lag, that thing was a HOOT to drive… I could have bought my buddy’s, sold my M and made a couple bucks… but I really want to see what this car does as a long term hold and I already have a 55 AMG Kompressor so I kept the E46M… the M is better looking car to me but that SL55 is grossly under appreciated.