Nightmare dealer situation (Updated)

[JudahJD904]

which dealership did you go to?

[sapote]

SIB 12 33 06
[URL=filedata/fetch?id=149362&d=1642784780][ATTACH=JSON]
There's another spot where it says it CAN cause a no crank situation with a fault stored in the EGS. This may the issue you have. These sensors go out all the time.

Sure, it was talking about defective sensor (bad with short circuit) and not empty oil pan.

[sapote]

A bad oil level sensor (short circuit) could blow the fuse but I don't think empty oil pan will blow it with ignition ON.
George Hill had confirmed no alarm with red oil light. I read this from the M3 User Manual. Also, it says to switch off the engine (means DME or sensor doesn't do it automatically).

[Arith2]

SIB 12 33 06


There's another spot where it says it CAN cause a no crank situation with a fault stored in the EGS. This may the issue you have. These sensors go out all the time.

[George Hill]

There was a SIB years ago, complaint was no start and the fuse was blown being caused by a faulty oil level sensor. When we would get the car we'd see the blown fuse, unplug the oil level sensor, replace the fuse and the car would start. I can't recall the SIB # though.

The engine will absolutely run with the low oil pressure light on... how else would it start in the first place? ***Edit, there is also NO alarm for low psi.

You are in a bad spot, sorry this has happened, it sounds like you have all the advice to make an informed decision and I can't add anything to it. Good luck.

[heinzboehmer]

sapote you're totally right, I didn't even consider the resistance vs temperature point.

Well then, I guess that wouldn't blow the fuse. Not sure what would, but I still don't think it's the DME blowing it on purpose.

[Irhase46m3]

Hi There - Very sorry this is happening to you, i put myself in your situation and i would probably end up killing someone at the dealer. This is precisely when i would take my car to get serviced at the Rusnak dealer (recalls) my buddy was the only one touching the car (he now moved to texas, so no more dealer)

At the bare minimum i would suggest having the dealer warranty with their two year repair the entire engine and have it in writing. I would also suggest having bmwna involved as you have been purchasing multiple vehicles throughout the years and this might give you a bit of leverage.

Good luck.

Irhase46m3

[sapote]

heinzboehmer My guess is the engine shut off due to the oil pressure drop resulting in the VANOS system fixing the timing in a position where the engine could not continue running properly.

The worst case is that with no oil pressure, both cams would be retarded max, but this is the same as running vanos cable disconnected and people had confirmed engine still running.

[sapote]

The oil level sensor works by heating up a resistive element and measuring how fast it is cooled (by the oil). I suspect what is happening is that the lack of oil does not allow it to cool and the sensor ends up drawing enough current to blow the fuse..

Since the heater only heat up to a specific temperature target only (for the high signal time), therefore even if zero oil the sensor is not heated up any higher than normal. Also, the heating current is a constant (constant heating power) in order to keep the high signal as a variable to only oil temperature and oil level. In addition, all heaters have positive coefficient: higher temp causes higher resistance and so lower current, not higher.

Easily be verified: during oil change, while waiting for the oil draining out, turn the ignition to ON (wanted to read out some trouble codes) and see if F30 fuse blew or not.

[sapote]

The dealer said it has a safety system that will turn the car off if oil gets too low. Then the independent BMW shop said there is no such thing and they’re lying to me. Not sure who to believe.

Dealer was lying to you.

[sapote]

The oil level sensor works by heating up a resistive element and measuring how fast it is cooled (by the oil). I suspect what is happening is that the lack of oil does not allow it to cool and the sensor ends up drawing enough current to blow the fuse..

Low oil or empty cannot short out the sensor and blow F30 fuse. Ex: I drained the oil during oil change, then just inserted and turn the ignition to ON to read out some diagnosis codes while waiting for the oil to drain, and this would blow the fuse?

working principle: heating time (high signal): longer heating time (80ms) when oil is cold. It means it takes 80ms for the heater to heat to a predetermined X temperature, and with hot oil it might take only 10ms to heat it to the same X temperature. During the heating cycle, the sensor circuit automatically turn off the heater when it reaches the X temperature. So by measuring the heating time (the high signal) the DME can use a look-up-table to convert the high signal time to oil temperature.

For the oil level, during the cool down cycle, the sensor measured the time needed to cool down the device to Y temperature -- higher level of oil cooled it down faster than less or no oil. So by knowing the cool time (250ms to 700ms), and based on the oil temperature, the DME can use the look-up-table to convert the time to oil level.

As I said before, in no way that BMW lawyers would allow the engineers to shut down the engine while the car moving because lack of oil. Too dangerous and bad idea.

[Kcalhoun27]

I haven’t ever had a problem with this dealer servicing multiple cars over the years and don’t feel like I should pay for anything when they fucked up. I just contacted a attorney to see if I have a case and have that as a option if this goes south. To be continued.

Fair enough. I hope you get a good result from this mess

[GreyM340i]

Why are you still entertaining this dealerships input? They pooched the easiest job available to them. The local bmw dealer to me couldnt fix a sandwich, sounds like these people arent any better.
Stop dealing with them, its a lost cause. Find an indy that isnt so useless, get your car fixed and go enjoy it. Those people are wasting your time, which is an even bigger problem.

I haven’t ever had a problem with this dealer servicing multiple cars over the years and don’t feel like I should pay for anything when they fucked up. I just contacted a attorney to see if I have a case and have that as a option if this goes south. To be continued.

[Kcalhoun27]

Why are you still entertaining this dealerships input? They pooched the easiest job available to them. The local bmw dealer to me couldnt fix a sandwich, sounds like these people arent any better.
Stop dealing with them, its a lost cause. Find an indy that isnt so useless, get your car fixed and go enjoy it. Those people are wasting your time, which is an even bigger problem.

[Slideways]

Sounds reasonable. Hopefully it's that and not excess friction in the bearings or cylinder walls

This scenario could be comparable to the VANOS hard oil line cracking and sending oil at 107 Bar of pressure all over the engine. From what I recall, those guys simply installed a new VANOS line and their S54s were fine. Then again, I think that would result in a yellow oil light and not a red one.