Nightmare dealer situation (Updated)

[/M3]

When the red light popped up, did you also hear the alarm sound? I wonder what cause the engine shut off -- too much friction or not working VANOS caused the cams moved to max retarded. Anyone know if engine can run with no oil pressure to vanos (or unplug vanos solenoid connector)? I seem to remember engine can run with the connector removed, and if this is true, then why OP's engine shut off?

The thermal oil level sensor noticed there was too less of an oil and sent a signal to the DME, which immediately destroyed the fuse therefore the engine was no longer running with no oil.

[GreyM340i]

Hence what I said at the beginning, you need to negotiate and will very likely be in for unplanned costs, but splitting the cost of a rod bearing job is your best bet to ensure nothing happen and have a maintenance job done as a side benefit

this is not about right wrong, but what you can do to make it better for yourself. Ideally non of this should have happened, but it did.

I agree about the rod bearings however when I spoke to a local I independent shop he mentioned he would be more worried about the top half of the motor as that area is first to loose oil. He said most likely the bottom half is probably ok because there was still oil in that area. He said he would first check Vanos and the head then move to the bottom half. Said maybe nothing went wrong however no one would know unless both the top and bottom were really checked.

[maupineda]

Hence what I said at the beginning, you need to negotiate and will very likely be in for unplanned costs, but splitting the cost of a rod bearing job is your best bet to ensure nothing happen and have a maintenance job done as a side benefit

this is not about right wrong, but what you can do to make it better for yourself. Ideally non of this should have happened, but it did.

[heinzboehmer]

Anyone know if engine can run with no oil pressure to vanos (or unplug vanos solenoid connector)?

Yes it will run with the connector unplugged. I once forgot to plug it in after timing my engine. Sounded like a cammed LS lol

I then tried to start the car and it hardly ran plus I heard a squeal sound before I quickly shut it off. I don't know what that could of been other than metal on metal contact.

A squeal? Like a slipping belt maybe? I would think the engine would clunk and rattle more than squeal if it was running with no oil.

Regardless, sorry to hear this happened to you. Hopefully the dealer agrees to open up the bottom end without much of a fight and you can drive your car around again.

[GreyM340i]

When the red light popped up, did you also hear the alarm sound? I wonder what cause the engine shut off -- too much friction or not working VANOS caused the cams moved to max retarded. Anyone know if engine can run with no oil pressure to vanos (or unplug vanos solenoid connector)? I seem to remember engine can run with the connector removed, and if this is true, then why OP's engine shut off?

I had my radio on however it wasn't loud so not sure if I heard a alarm. I think I down shifted to get off the expressway exit and then noticed my car turned off. It felt the same as someone stalling a stick car on takeoff. I quickly got on the side to let the cars behind me pass. I then tried to start the car and it hardly ran plus I heard a squeal sound before I quickly shut it off. I don't know what that could of been other than metal on metal contact.

[sapote]

Red oil light went on and the engine died.

When the red light popped up, did you also hear the alarm sound? I wonder what cause the engine shut off -- too much friction or not working VANOS caused the cams moved to max retarded. Anyone know if engine can run with no oil pressure to vanos (or unplug vanos solenoid connector)? I seem to remember engine can run with the connector removed, and if this is true, then why OP's engine shut off?

[GreyM340i]

Scratched or slight worn bearings will not make noise enough to hear the obvious, but visually could be bad. Their tech made the mistake and you should not be holding the short end with damaged bearings, even no obvious noise yet. What if some rod bearings spun 5000 miles down the road?

I’m with you on this and i said the same thing to them today. I will go in person Friday and speak to the GM and see what he says. I have been cool the whole time and the manager even said he appreciated it however so far it hasn’t gotten me to a better resolution. Ill know more. In the next few days.

[sapote]

They now say its running fine and put it in writing that I can drive it 500 miles then come back for a oil change to send a sample to Blackstone then go from there.

Scratched or slight worn bearings will not make noise enough to hear the obvious, but visually could be bad. Their tech made the mistake and you should not be holding the short end with damaged bearings, even no obvious noise yet. What if some rod bearings spun 5000 miles down the road?

[Icecream]

Oh wow thanks for posting. Yeah this is what I’m afraid of. Not sure what my options are at this point because they don't seem to want to do anything else saying the car is fine. I will be going in on Friday and will try to speak to the dealership GM and see where that gets me. Not sure what I can do other than try and take legal action however will I even have a case if they say the engine is running perfectly and no sign of damage? This is a horrible situation.

Yeah it is man. Don't threaten them with legal action (yet), being courteous, understanding their perspective and not threatening them will go a long way. Opening the bottom end is not a lot of work for a dealer, they owe that to you (I'd even agree to pay for parts just to get them to do it). The only way to make this easy is to either try the 500 mile thing (better yet, tell them to extend it to a 3000 mile run) with the understanding in writing, that it does not absolve them of anything if you get a clean report (the purpose of it is to see if you get a bad report to definitively prove the engine was damaged, not necessarily to get a good report and let the dealer off the hook ) or, agree to have them perform a rod bearing job at cost (parts/labor) and that they will warranty the work. Yours only have 70k on them so they aren't worn but they are halfway through their life. If they discover abnormal wear during the job, have them agree the bill is on them (for a new motor at that point, or a solid warranty) or if they look fine, you get new bearings at cost (which you'd have to pay for down the road anyway). GL man, keep your cool, work with the dealer and I am sure you will get a good outcome. I don't know how BMWNA works but if you have a history of buying new cars from them, shoot them an email about the situation, i'd even let the dealer know you are doing this as a courtesy but only after you have documented they messed up the oil change, that you got a red oil light and that the engine stalled as you were driving back from the dealer. Get that in writing, somehow, it's probably already written up in their reports.

[GreyM340i]

I'd kindly pass on that offer. What is the ppm threshold they are looking for? Are they going to make excuses when a moderately bad report comes back and at 500 miles, that's not much driving to get meaningful data (unless it is over 100ppm everywhere). As anecdotal evidence why this is a bad idea, most on here know my car suffered a low oil condition due to a blown vanos line. Car didn't shut off, never saw a red oil light and never heard a single noise or any roughness in the engine. thought I dodged a bullet, I did not. I was very low on oil, probably a minute or two from throwing a rod, but again, no noise, no lights (oil level sensor was busted, unknown to me). The engine blew just a few thousand miles later, no indications that something was wrong, not even the filter had specs in it after the first oil change after the initial low oil event (possible I did not check the filter as closely as I should have) but it ran perfect. Take this with a grain of salt since I don't know yet (until maybe after I open the motor) what actually happened but I'd hate to see you coming back here in 3 months looking for an engine.

Oh wow thanks for posting. Yeah this is what I’m afraid of. Not sure what my options are at this point because they don't seem to want to do anything else saying the car is fine. I will be going in on Friday and will try to speak to the dealership GM and see where that gets me. Not sure what I can do other than try and take legal action however will I even have a case if they say the engine is running perfectly and no sign of damage? This is a horrible situation.

[Icecream]

Red oil light went on and the engine died. I pulled to the side then tried to start it and it made a noise and sounded ruff. I quickly shut it off and checked the oil. They now say its running fine and put it in writing that I can drive it 500 miles then come back for a oil change to send a sample to Blackstone then go from there.

I'd kindly pass on that offer. What is the ppm threshold they are looking for? Are they going to make excuses when a moderately bad report comes back and at 500 miles, that's not much driving to get meaningful data (unless it is over 100ppm everywhere). As anecdotal evidence why this is a bad idea, most on here know my car suffered a low oil condition due to a blown vanos line. Car didn't shut off, never saw a red oil light and never heard a single noise or any roughness in the engine. thought I dodged a bullet, I did not. I was very low on oil, probably a minute or two from throwing a rod, but again, no noise, no lights (oil level sensor was busted, unknown to me). The engine blew just a few thousand miles later, no indications that something was wrong, not even the filter had specs in it after the first oil change after the initial low oil event (possible I did not check the filter as closely as I should have) but it ran perfect. Take this with a grain of salt since I don't know yet (until maybe after I open the motor) what actually happened but I'd hate to see you coming back here in 3 months looking for an engine.

[Icecream]

To avoid fatal accident -- say in the middle of a left turn front of traffic -- I don't think the DME software would shut off the engine just because a red oil light signal, it's just too dangerous.

As about checking the oil filter, this short event could scratch the bearings but not running long enough to have the metal flakes collected in the filter yet. The bearings need to be checked.

Yeah true, I have no idea if it does or doesn't on the new ones. Overall probably no higher risk than SMG failure in a left turn haha, zing!

I figured they test drove it a bit after topping up. Easy check and would be a quick way to get the dealer to agree.

[BMWE46M3]

Dude, that sucks... If you're a member of the BMWCCA then I would recommend emailing Mike Miller and getting his advice. The club has some leverage and getting them involved in any possible way can only help you. Remember it was their strong petitioning BMW to sell the M3 here in the first place, and if they hadn't we wouldn't even have this forum since none of us would own M3s. I really hope this works out for you.

[GreyM340i]

You said you've bought your last three BMWs from this dealer so that should buy you some good will. Highly suggest you escalate this to at least the dealer GM if not the owner. The service manager is not going to want you to do that but you need to get above him and leverage the business you've given them in the past to the fullest extent.

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I think you’re right. I’m going to go in on Friday and speak to the GM. Not sure where this is going to go.

[Phoenix///M3]

You said you've bought your last three BMWs from this dealer so that should buy you some good will. Highly suggest you escalate this to at least the dealer GM if not the owner. The service manager is not going to want you to do that but you need to get above him and leverage the business you've given them in the past to the fullest extent.

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