S54 Stroker build

[Anri]

Redline to 9k.Anthony

Hi Anthony,

You have very hi goals and expectations from 3.2XX displacement out of only 6 holes...

I assume you are in a place of were emissions are exempt ?

9000rpm ? Is this a race engine with few hours and then torn down to inspect parts ?

500 crank hp as requested and perhaps put on 91 pump gas ? oh boy you are asking the
absolute not possible.

You have to be more Constructive in therms of physics and then you will quickly get an
idea that what you ask for is impossible.

First things first !!! the type of fuel are you going to be driving your custom build S54 ?
it looks to me that you will be driving on pump gas 91-93 octane. No cheating fuel here, right ?

Tabel of content.

-HP per liter should be your goal #1. What you are asking is 156hp-per 1k cc of displacement
that is absolute impossible to achieve with pump gas. Unless the Owner of the gas station puts
inside in his tanks M5+Nytro fuel.
-9000rpm is great but reliability goals ? To hold the valve train intact you need very stiff springs
which do load the the valve train parts and apply a lot of stress which leads to shorter life span.
-Power curve target ?
-Internal vibration out of inline-6 and parasitic loses in which will destroy your Harmonic balancer
and possibly/likely the crankshaft. Stroker engines do not like to rev hi and you ask the opposite.
-Lash caps is a common upgrade when you pushing hi revs. But never forget there is no
Free Lunch !!! Stiff springs and seat pressure do ware out the parts such as valves to the seat
camshaft ware out, rocker arms DLC is a must to increase reliability. Revving to 9000rpm you
will need to adjust your valves frequently because its the nature of all Race Engines with solid
valve train design.
-Heat management generated via 9000rpm.

Look at things as complete Package not individual and virtual "I want"

Hope this will help a bit.

Regards,
Anri

[digger]

Update: I've gotten in contact with Lang Racing Development today, awaiting a response along with Patree racing

and to digger: since increasing the displacement ruins the reliability of this engine, my fear is with 13:1 Compression and a 9k redline along with E85, and an increase in displacement will only lead to disaster. I would like to get as close as I can to 300wtq.

it doesnt ruin the reliability, as there simply wont be a need to turn anywhere near 9k as the peak power will be around 8k maybe a tad below it due to the larger displacment depending on stroke. the engine should make 300wtq with 13:1 compression and E85

[ethan]

Update: I've gotten in contact with Lang Racing Development today, awaiting a response along with Patree racing

and to digger: since increasing the displacement ruins the reliability of this engine, my fear is with 13:1 Compression and a 9k redline along with E85, and an increase in displacement will only lead to disaster. I would like to get as close as I can to 300wtq.

Revs kill rod bearings. Long stroke kills rod bearings. You're going to be pushing the limits of reliability with this build no matter what. Hopefully the pros will have some good advice for you 👍.

[M/Anthony]

Update: I've gotten in contact with Lang Racing Development today, awaiting a response along with Patree racing

and to digger: since increasing the displacement ruins the reliability of this engine, my fear is with 13:1 Compression and a 9k redline along with E85, and an increase in displacement will only lead to disaster. I would like to get as close as I can to 300wtq.

[ethan]

For a build like this, you really need to talk to race teams and engine builders who've put things like this together. Increasing stroke on what amounts to a factory-stroked engine is aggressive, but people like Lang have spent a lot of time making it work with billet cranks with widened journals/bearings. Shoot him an email with your reliability and horsepower requirements and see what he comes up with. He's extremely knowledgeable.

[digger]

Relabilty in terms of engine performance and engine life not the crank itself, because increasing the crank would effectively increase the displacement?

not sure what reliability of performance means, the engine will wear out a bit quicker like for like. It is subject to how hard its used, bear in mind you wont need to rev it as hard as the power peak will occur at a lower rpm by 3-400rpm.

[M/Anthony]

0.5mm is not worth a huge amount in itself from the size as it is a small percentage point change in engine size. new pistons gain from what you have comes from it being a fresh bore and torque plate honing, different CR, deeper valve reliefs better rings etc etc.

i have no idea on the quality and don't know the manufacturer, cant see any inherent issues though. You wouldnt know until the engine builder mic's it and checks it out

Relabilty in terms of engine performance and engine life not the crank itself, because increasing the crank would effectively increase the displacement?

[digger]

How much does increasing the bore by .5mm effet the engine?
LangRacing has a 95mm Billet Crank, cheaper $3795 with this I will still have good reliability?

0.5mm is not worth a huge amount in itself from the size as it is a small percentage point change in engine size. new pistons gain from what you have comes from it being a fresh bore and torque plate honing, different CR, deeper valve reliefs better rings etc etc.

i have no idea on the quality and don't know the manufacturer, cant see any inherent issues though. You wouldnt know until the engine builder mic's it and checks it out

[M/Anthony]

i wouldnt do that small of a stroke increase, 2 mm is not much if youre spending $5k. 95-97mm is what i'd personally do.

How much does increasing the bore by .5mm effet the engine?
LangRacing has a 95mm Billet Crank, cheaper $3795 with this I will still have good reliability?

[digger]

Ok, starting to take some of this info in a little bit more.. the S54 crank is 91mm, increasing it to 93mm while keeping stock connecting rod dimensions, then upgrading to a 87.5 piston be the way to go? going to a 95+mm crank would seem to abusive and ruin the engine, not trying to rebuild a lot. So by that logic, a 93mm and slighter larger pistons give the engine itself a little more torque, while still, keeping high compression build? can somebody confirm/analyze this?

Going what Hassan, and you say 13:1 compression E85, high lift Schrick im guessing based on what your syaing that 304/296 will be too much correct? , 93mm crank, 87.50mm or stock 87mm pistons? I will sleeve this engine; with Stash1 ST valve shim conversion kit is a good place to start? trying to get the best of both worlds.

i wouldnt do that small of a stroke increase, 2 mm is not much if youre spending $5k. 95-97mm is what i'd personally do.

[terra]

You can keep a stock or near stock idle with big cams. You just need to adjust the DME's settings for pumping losses.

[M/Anthony]

Absolutely. I do get a booklet for in class lectures on top of my actual text book. For some reason I've forgotten it even exists. I brought my idle to 900 or 950 for NVH since I went catless which is nicer than I think 750 or 800. My redline is at 8250 and my power peaks at 8100 according to Buildjournal. I remember reading somewhere that our piston velocity is like 25 m/s at 8000rpm which is insane so getting too rev happy will end badly. Plus valves may float. One of my instructors was telling me how they were shooting shims through the valve cover at 9000rpm occasionally when he was on a race team. If this happens, I have an extra valve cover

Does anyone know the BMEP for our engine?

Once the engine is built and an m3 is bought ill have a whole extra long block 😁 Time to practice valve adjustments for fun.

Isnt the rule 27m/s? Now, that's a modern-day horror story right there. Don't worry my car never saw 3.5K rpm until it hit regular oil temp, sucked to drive in the morning but the engine ran great. The s54 sounds like itll explode every time you hit 7k+ next to a line of cars and a 8-foot tall wall, best sound ever though. I'm very cautious even more now that ill be building it lol.

[Arith2]

right there made me keep going with this build. I will be documenting this through journal, Instagram, and youtube!

Yes higher rpms is fine with me ahaha, yeah with bigger cams higher rpm idle stock is 950, I believe even the csl revs a slightly higher than stock, not completely sure. Defiantly not doing big boy stroke, still looking to increase torque.

wanna share class notes? lol

Absolutely. I do get a booklet for in class lectures on top of my actual text book. For some reason I've forgotten it even exists. I brought my idle to 900 or 950 for NVH since I went catless which is nicer than I think 750 or 800. My redline is at 8250 and my power peaks at 8100 according to Buildjournal. I remember reading somewhere that our piston velocity is like 25 m/s at 8000rpm which is insane so getting too rev happy will end badly. Plus valves may float. One of my instructors was telling me how they were shooting shims through the valve cover at 9000rpm occasionally when he was on a race team. If this happens, I have an extra valve cover

Does anyone know the BMEP for our engine?

[M/Anthony]

That's definitely good to know. I was thinking that the vanos might create too much overlap but really, it just may be dialed backed woth the tune. The idling can be fixed by raising it... Maybe 1200rpm will keep it run decent for daily driving?

It's probably good to not stroke this engine for daily driving. These pistons move extremely fast as is. I'm about to start another Power and Performance class. I think I'll be mapping tunes(I won't be an expert by any means) so I should learn alot more about this in depth over the next few weeks. Hopefully the teacher doesn't suck. I do wish the school didn't pull the Flowmaster out of the curriculum though.

This aggressive build is going to be sick. You should document this on Youtube.

right there encouraged me a little more to keep going with this build. I will be documenting this through journal, Instagram, and youtube!

Yes higher rpms is fine with me ahaha, yeah with bigger cams higher rpm with idle, stock is 950, I believe even the csl revs a slightly higher than stock, not completely sure. Defiantly not doing big boy stroke, still looking to increase torque.

wanna share class notes? lol

[M/Anthony]

then you want the longest stroke crank, high compression, E85, with mild cams (non excessive durarion but good lift) thats the fundamentals of how you make torque. you can forego the high lit 14mm cams if you want added durability in the valvetrain.

to make hp with stock crank means more rpm which is harder on parts than cubic inches, valve control which can spit shims, pound retainers, locks, fatigue springs and everything else. i havent kept up with what the big names are selling these days but if i was build a high spec motor id be going a diffrent route to the usual ST or ferrea as i think there is better stuff out there but you need to know your stuff to mix and match bits and piecs and some of will need to be custom

Ok, starting to take some of this info in a little bit more.. the S54 crank is 91mm, increasing it to 93mm while keeping stock connecting rod dimensions, then upgrading to a 87.5 piston be the way to go? going to a 95+mm crank would seem to abusive and ruin the engine, not trying to rebuild a lot. So by that logic, a 93mm and slighter larger pistons give the engine itself a little more torque, while still, keeping high compression build? can somebody confirm/analyze this?

Going what Hassan, and you say 13:1 compression E85, high lift Schrick im guessing based on what your syaing that 304/296 will be too much correct? , 93mm crank, 87.50mm or stock 87mm pistons? I will sleeve this engine; with Stash1 ST valve shim conversion kit is a good place to start? trying to get the best of both worlds.