Vanos help!!

[grimesbdriftin7]

I was recently doing my vanos. I decided to go with besians seals oil pump disc etc. So with my cams both fully retarted number 1 cam lobes pointing at each other with my crank and cams in time. I pulled off my vanos unit and noticed the holes at the top of each hub were not at top like besians pic. Also the exaust hub front protruding tabs are not oriented horizontal with the floor. I also noticed the intake and exaust spline shaft splines are both recessed further into the hub than pictured on besians. So be curious I decided to further investigate. I marked splines, hubs, sprocket, chain and than removed the hubs and splines. I than noticed my exaust sprocket orientation is not like pictured on besians as you can see.

I'm thinking someone that owned the car before me installed the exaust sprocket wrong. So my question is should I install it back with the orientation showed on besians website? I plan to do this but make sure.
My second question is with with my cams being fully retarted and both of my splines being recessed further into the hubs than showed on besians does that mean my car has been out of time?

[mrgizmo04]

I responded to your post in the S54 Vanos thread, but here is copypasta .

Please don't go off of "my spline was recessed 1.5mm so I will reinstall it so it is recessed 1.5mm". Follow the procedure and that should get you to the right timing and range of adjustment and proper piston/endcap gap.

I've seen cars that upon disassembly, don't line up to what is shown in the pictures. Someone was in there before, but it doesn't mean it was incorrectly timed. Exact orientation doesn't matter. There are 6 slots in the gear sprocket and 6 hub bolts, so theoretically your starting point could be any of the 6 in terms of orientation. The computer doesn't know nor care that the hub tabs are horizontal or vertical or at some other angle when VANOS is initially assembled, it only cares about the relative position and range of spline/vanos piston vs hub rotation to allow for the full advance and retard of the cam, so as long as you follow the procedure and get the hub fully cw before inserting the spline, that is all that matters (oil pump disc can be rotated about the axis to account for hub tabs being at different orientation). Beisan and TIS and usually any procedure, need standardization and common reference and starting point so that everyone who is trying to put it back together and doesn't fully understand what is going on, and is just following steps, can keep point of reference and comparison (no harm intended with that comment, fyi). I understand being uncertain and making marks on all the pieces the way they come off so they can be put back the exact same way and orientation, but that is not the best approach.

Hopefully this helps.

Ping if need help.

[Slideways]

The holes on the hubs are for a special BMW tool that helps rotate the hubs to get the first tooth engagement on the helical gears. It seems like orientation does not matter and the Beisan directions state to just rotate the hubs by hand. Since you have to retime the engine, it would probably be good to correct it.

I'd follow the Beisan instructions to a T and mount the VANOS unit with the splined gears together. That way, there is no real need to question the depth of the splined gears.

[mrgizmo04]

Yeah while what I described doesn't matter mechanically, I would still follow the procedure and get it all lined up per the way it should be, it'll be cleaner and easier in the future. If you ever go to sell the car and need a ppi and a shop pops the valve cover and sees that "it ain't no look like the pictures in the textbook", they might assume something is wrong. And if you ever need to troubleshoot, you will have that reference point of knowing if anything is off/incorrect.

[jbfrancis3]

To get it lined up as other have suggested, you'll need to remove the chain tensioner which you probably already found described in the Besian procedures. Then with the exhaust hub removed, you'll remove the exhaust sprocket and turn it a tooth or two relative to the chain. If you're removing the chain tensioner, then you should get the Besian chain guide if you haven't already.

[jbfrancis3]

And consider Lang's VANOS bolt kit, if you aren't pressed for time. https://store.langracing.com/s54-cam-gear-bolt-kit/

[mrgizmo04]

OP - all that said, did you get confirmation that your VANOS was ever done? Was the car having issues or throwing codes? Running poorly? Someone was in there (maybe) do you know what work was performed?

On Lang bolts - you only need to replace the cam bolts if yours are damaged/sheared/broken. If they are tight when you go to take them out and show no damage on the threads (which if they were tight they should not have any damage), you can reuse them WITH threadlocker. The mode of failure of the bolts is lack of threadlocker from factory and thus causing them to back out. It is not that they are weak bolts. So threadlocker is the real solution. Obviously if yours are damaged, you have to replace them, otherwise you can reuse them. Whether reusing yours or replacing with Lang (or others), use threadlocker.

[Slideways]

BMW has changed almost all (if not all) their bolts from hex to torx. I would not be surprised if that is the only change from the old cam bolts to the new ones. Standard blue threadlocker works, but there is one that resists oil that is also blue - https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-13307...004L439FE?th=1

[grimesbdriftin7]

I responded to your post in the S54 Vanos thread, but here is copypasta .

Please don't go off of "my spline was recessed 1.5mm so I will reinstall it so it is recessed 1.5mm". Follow the procedure and that should get you to the right timing and range of adjustment and proper piston/endcap gap.

I've seen cars that upon disassembly, don't line up to what is shown in the pictures. Someone was in there before, but it doesn't mean it was incorrectly timed. Exact orientation doesn't matter. There are 6 slots in the gear sprocket and 6 hub bolts, so theoretically your starting point could be any of the 6 in terms of orientation. The computer doesn't know nor care that the hub tabs are horizontal or vertical or at some other angle when VANOS is initially assembled, it only cares about the relative position and range of spline/vanos piston vs hub rotation to allow for the full advance and retard of the cam, so as long as you follow the procedure and get the hub fully cw before inserting the spline, that is all that matters (oil pump disc can be rotated about the axis to account for hub tabs being at different orientation). Beisan and TIS and usually any procedure, need standardization and common reference and starting point so that everyone who is trying to put it back together and doesn't fully understand what is going on, and is just following steps, can keep point of reference and comparison (no harm intended with that comment, fyi). I understand being uncertain and making marks on all the pieces the way they come off so they can be put back the exact same way and orientation, but that is not the best approach.

Hopefully this helps.

Ping if need help.

Thank you for taking the time for replying to my post. I understand that the sprocket orientation is not important to timing like stated on Beisans. Although the computer dose not care, I'm going to install my exhaust sprocket like pictured on Beisan so that I get the hub tab positioning showed on Beisans procedure. A person like me, whom doesn't fully understand what is going on (no offense taken lol) and is just following steps gets quite confused when my starting point is not the same. Thank you for clarifying and helping me understand my first question, but I'm still a bit confused why my intake and exhaust splines are recessed further into hub than pictured on Beisans. What does this tell me? From what I understand when I retarded the exhaust and intake cam it should have brought both spline shafts closest to the vanos, and because it didn't I keep thinking there is something wrong. Thank you for your help.

[grimesbdriftin7]

OP - all that said, did you get confirmation that your VANOS was ever done? Was the car having issues or throwing codes? Running poorly? Someone was in there (maybe) do you know what work was performed?

On Lang bolts - you only need to replace the cam bolts if yours are damaged/sheared/broken. If they are tight when you go to take them out and show no damage on the threads (which if they were tight they should not have any damage), you can reuse them WITH threadlocker. The mode of failure of the bolts is lack of threadlocker from factory and thus causing them to back out. It is not that they are weak bolts. So threadlocker is the real solution. Obviously if yours are damaged, you have to replace them, otherwise you can reuse them. Whether reusing yours or replacing with Lang (or others), use threadlocker.

No I don't have any confirmation that my Vanos was ever done. I assume it wasn't though because I had the original oil pump disk and all the o rings were hard and broke like plastic. Original cam bolts and my chain guide was broken. There were no codes but it wasn't running as good when I bought it at 84000 miles. Just pre maintenance. The only thing that looks new or different is the exhaust hub and exaust sprocket itself looks sharper than than the intake sproket which make me believe its newer. The original oil pump disc I sent back to beisans did have wear markings near where the exaust hubs tabs go in.

[grimesbdriftin7]

Here's some more pictures. Next time I do a job on this car I'm going to definitely take more pictures.

[eacmen]

I do like the fat boys videos on VANOS work. Seem to explain it very well.

https://youtu.be/7xh7aJl1OxQ

[mrgizmo04]

Thank you for taking the time for replying to my post. I understand that the sprocket orientation is not important to timing like stated on Beisans. Although the computer dose not care, I'm going to install my exhaust sprocket like pictured on Beisan so that I get the hub tab positioning showed on Beisans procedure. A person like me, whom doesn't fully understand what is going on (no offense taken lol) and is just following steps gets quite confused when my starting point is not the same. Thank you for clarifying and helping me understand my first question, but I'm still a bit confused why my intake and exhaust splines are recessed further into hub than pictured on Beisans. What does this tell me? From what I understand when I retarded the exhaust and intake cam it should have brought both spline shafts closest to the vanos, and because it didn't I keep thinking there is something wrong. Thank you for your help.

Sorry, I'm catching up on threads. So as you noted from position of your hub, sounds like someone was in there before. They probably played the guesstimation game (protrude the spline by x and then tighten the hub when putting it together), instead of doing it properly - attaching the vanos unit pistons to the spline, getting them flush against the unit and endcaps, rotating the hub cw and inserting the splines into the hubs making sure they are still flush before tightening the hubs.

Since you still have some travel left before your spline bottom out flush against the vanos unit in the fully retarded position (or what should be the fully retarded position), your cams would overretard and underadvance per spline travel available within the hub as actuated by the vanos unit pistons. I don't think you mentioned seeing any codes, so it was probably withing the allowable 8degree range tolerance. All that said in summary you were leaving some power on the table.

[mrgizmo04]

I do like the fat boys videos on VANOS work. Seem to explain it very well.

https://youtu.be/7xh7aJl1OxQ

When they were on the old forum I reviewed their videos and write ups and asked them to correct a few things. I am not sure they did. I would follow Beisan, but if you want some extra visual with moving pictures (Beisan has 1000s of static ones 😁) you can use them as a resource at your own risk, because there is some stuff that is sometimes missed in a 10min video or under storyline editing that is fixed on the car behind the scenes.

I am not saying not to use them or that they are incorrect, just putting in a disclaimer.

[eacmen]

When they were on the old forum I reviewed their videos and write ups and asked them to correct a few things. I am not sure they did. I would follow Beisan, but if you want some extra visual with moving pictures (Beisan has 1000s of static ones 😁) you can use them as a resource at your own risk, because there is some stuff that is sometimes missed in a 10min video or under storyline editing that is fixed on the car behind the scenes.

I am not saying not to use them or that they are incorrect, just putting in a disclaimer.

Agreed. I follow Beisan procedures and used the fatboy videos for certain steps. For example I liked their method for removing preload from the diaphram spring while bolting the vanos to the head.

I put a long screwdriver into the cam alignment hole while doing that to make sure I would notice if the cams moved.