Anyone else remove the rear sway bar?

[Tbonem3]

Is anyone taking rear wheel/tire width into consideration. Like, removing the rear bar might work better with a 265 on 9.5", but understeer too much with 275 on 10"?

cobra - what is your wheel width and tires? I don't understand how your rear spring rate can be so low AND you are happy without the rear bar - are you on 9" 255s? Stock rear spring goes up to like 680lbs or something, but you're in the 400s?

Spring rate increasing will limit roll, but it also increases compression. Sway bar tuning will affect roll, but not L+R spring/shock travel action. So, I thought you go stiffer springs, less travel needed, lower height/lower COG, but then you delete the rear bar in order to maintain some roll/grip and not so much oversteer?

[Obioban]

Removal of the rear bar would result in more rear grip? If the car was loose this would likely bring it closer to neutral?

Whatever it was, it’ll make it (significantly) more understeer biased.

[D-O]

To point out the obvious, just removing a sway bar, without changing the spring rates to match, will results in a huge change to FRC (oversteer/understeer ratio).

Removal of the rear bar would result in more rear grip? If the car was loose this would likely bring it closer to neutral?

[Johnvu]

I deleted my rear sway bar after using the Flatride calculator whenever I first got my coilover setup to really dial in the FRC. I have since upgraded the front sway bar to a turner one, which allowed me to put the OEM rear bar back on. I have to say that the car feels a lot more stable around turns but I haven't taken it to the track so I cannot compare apples to apples yet.

[Obioban]

To point out the obvious, just removing a sway bar, without changing the spring rates to match, will results in a huge change to FRC (oversteer/understeer ratio).

[eacmen]

I might try this as the track this weekend.

[cobra]

Hmm, my car came with the Turner Front and Rear 30/25 Sway Bar kit. I'm running relatively soft off the shelf Bilstein PSS10 with the springs they came with and have the turner rear bar set to the softer of its two settings with adjustable endlinks. I dont want to completely remove the rear bar as my car is a dual purpose street/track car and don't feel comfortable doing that, but should I pick up a stock rear bar and swap that in place of the Turner bar?

You could always just remove the bar and see how it feels. Then, knowing that, you will know that a stock bar is somewhere between your Turner bars and no bar.

The more I drive the less I miss the rear bar. Really no downsides for my purposes.

[T.J.]

Hmm, my car came with the Turner Front and Rear 30/25 Sway Bar kit. I'm running relatively soft off the shelf Bilstein PSS10 with the springs they came with and have the turner rear bar set to the softer of its two settings with adjustable endlinks. I dont want to completely remove the rear bar as my car is a dual purpose street/track car and don't feel comfortable doing that, but should I pick up a stock rear bar and swap that in place of the Turner bar?

How does the car feel? I have pss10 with stock sways and there is no looseness in the rear. When I intentionally slide, it’s pretty progressive. I was actually thinking of getting those sways to reduce the understeer.

[Thrifty S50]

+1 for removing rear sway. I ran my track/street E36 w/out a rear sway for about 3-4 years and loved it. The rear would squat and "hunker down" when given throttle when exiting a turn, instead of just kicking the rear out like it did prior. The car eventually became more of a "daily drifter" and the lack of rear sway actually made it a lot more predictable when it broke loose, and much more controllable when in drift.

[BigRussia]

Hmm, my car came with the Turner Front and Rear 30/25 Sway Bar kit. I'm running relatively soft off the shelf Bilstein PSS10 with the springs they came with and have the turner rear bar set to the softer of its two settings with adjustable endlinks. I dont want to completely remove the rear bar as my car is a dual purpose street/track car and don't feel comfortable doing that, but should I pick up a stock rear bar and swap that in place of the Turner bar?

[cobra]

When I called T.C. Kline for advice on spring rates he advised that I could do "almost anything" I like to the front of the car, but that great care should be taken in the rear else I would not be able to put the power down. He advised me not to use anything larger than the stock rear bar, which they sometimes remove from their racing cars, and that I may find I like the car better with no rear bar at all. Seems your experience bears this out.

D-O

It sounds like TC Kline might know a thing or two about race setups

I’ve have my rear bar deleted since 2018, haven’t looked back. I don’t know of any downsides other than having to run more negative camber.

I’ve increased negative camber to -3.1 from -2.7 to get even tire wear across the tire. My rear tires also last a lot longer. I haven’t had to rotate tires to maximize tire life…don’t even need to flip them anymore.

Not sure if that is just the rear sway bar though.

One thing that does happen is I can lift the inside front wheel pretty easily if I’m giving it a lot of throttle coming out of a turn.

I recommend deleting the rear bar quite often. Everyone has scoffed at the idea. If anything more people put an even stiffer rear bar.


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I can't imagine running a STIFFER rear sway also with stiff springs. On bumpy/uneven roads it will not contort to the road properly and end up skipping around.

Interesting about lifting a front inside wheel, I haven't experienced that but then again I haven't driven in a track scenario yet.

[bigjae46]

I’ve have my rear bar deleted since 2018, haven’t looked back. I don’t know of any downsides other than having to run more negative camber.

I’ve increased negative camber to -3.1 from -2.7 to get even tire wear across the tire. My rear tires also last a lot longer. I haven’t had to rotate tires to maximize tire life…don’t even need to flip them anymore.

Not sure if that is just the rear sway bar though.

One thing that does happen is I can lift the inside front wheel pretty easily if I’m giving it a lot of throttle coming out of a turn.

I recommend deleting the rear bar quite often. Everyone has scoffed at the idea. If anything more people put an even stiffer rear bar.


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[D-O]

When I called T.C. Kline for advice on spring rates he advised that I could do "almost anything" I like to the front of the car, but that great care should be taken in the rear else I would not be able to put the power down. He advised me not to use anything larger than the stock rear bar, which they sometimes remove from their racing cars, and that I may find I like the car better with no rear bar at all. Seems your experience bears this out.

D-O

[Rudbari]

For the past week or so I've been driving with no rear swaybar. The reason for removing it was I felt like i couldn't really put the power down coming out of corners. I am running 300/475 F/R linear spring rates, 245/275 PS4S, and stock front sway.

A friend of mine suggested removing the rear sway bar which I thought was crazy, but tried it anyway since it's easy and free.

I'm completely amazed at how good it is now. There is a small increase in body roll, but on the plus side I can practically keep the gas pedal floored through the same corners and the tires just stick. The ride quality is also improved a bit over uneven roads.

I was concerned about shifting the bias too much towards understeer, but instead the car just feels balanced.


Who else has tried this? Thoughts?

intersting
Interesting

[FBloggs]

This was commonly done on E 30s in the 90's when I was a track Junky.
you get more vertical load on the outside rear, ergo, more traction under acceleration when exiting the corner.
There will be less stability under braking, especially with off-the- shelf spring rates.
It may become a pita after a month or so, of street driving.