Dr Vanos Cryo hub or Beisan?

[tcp]

Oh cool. Pics?

I know the question wasn't direct at me, but...

Here's my hub at 120k miles. I got the car at 113k and have no idea how long it was missing a tab. Luckily, it fell into the oil pan.



I replaced it with the Beisan hub.

[terra]

Just to add a data point, I caught one of my exhaust tabs partially cracked. It was VERY hard to see with visual inspection while everything was still assembled. Just a small darker line where the tab meets the body do the hub.

Ended up replacing the hub, full beisan kit, cam bolts and chain guides. My old hub makes for a fun desk ornament.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

I had one like this as well (might be the one example Obioban was referring to). Who knows how long it would have lasted like that. I ended up going with the turbotoy hub. That was actually the second time a vanos hub was replaced on my car. The previous owner had one replaced at about 60k miles.

[heinzboehmer]

Just to add a data point, I caught one of my exhaust tabs partially cracked. It was VERY hard to see with visual inspection while everything was still assembled. Just a small darker line where the tab meets the body do the hub.

Ended up replacing the hub, full beisan kit, cam bolts and chain guides. My old hub makes for a fun desk ornament.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

Oh cool. Pics?

[Lavatoad]

Checking the tabs tells you nothing other than that the tabs have not yet failed. I've only ever seen one example posted of a partially failed tab, so overall failure must be happening VERY quickly-- which makes the odds of you catching the failure mid way through (by "checking" them) very unlikely.

Once the tab fails, if you're lucky you just have to replace the pump disk (with no core) and exhaust hub ($)... and if you're unlucky you need a new engine ($$$).

Just to add a data point, I caught one of my exhaust tabs partially cracked. It was VERY hard to see with visual inspection while everything was still assembled. Just a small darker line where the tab meets the body do the hub.

Ended up replacing the hub, full beisan kit, cam bolts and chain guides. My old hub makes for a fun desk ornament.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[sharadn]

I appreciate all the replies and am waiting for a quote from my trusted mechanic

[Obioban]

It’s not really pure speculation— I’m local to VAC, so I see VAC caused engine failures at least monthly. That place is an unbelievable shit show.

[jet_dogg]

The issue is pretty well proven to not be with the tabs-- it's with the slop between the tabs and disk.

I'm well aware.

VAC hub is more likely to have an issue.

This is pure speculation.

Paying more for a worse result doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.

My originally posted feelings still stand. I will decide what to do once the vanos is opened up, thanks for your input.

[Obioban]

I don't like monkeying around modifying original factory parts in an irreversible fashion. The issue is with the tabs so I'd rather not alter another part it mates to in order to make it work simply due to cost reasons.

Cryo treated factory hub is laughable as well. I'd never pay a grand for that shit.

The issue is pretty well proven to not be with the tabs-- it's with the slop between the tabs and disk.

VAC hub is more likely to have an issue, heavier, and >4x more expensive. And, it's a VAC product. I agree the cryo hub serves no purpose, but I'd happily pay a grand for that before putting a VAC product in my engine.

Paying more for a worse result doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.

[sapote]

I don't like monkeying around modifying original factory parts in an irreversible fashion. The issue is with the tabs so I'd rather not alter another part it mates to in order to make it work simply due to cost reasons.

Cryo treated factory hub is laughable as well. I'd never pay a grand for that shit.

What if the original parts were designed with too much backlash and causing vibration, leading to broken hub tabs? This seems very obvious and so I didn't hesitate to drill the pump disk with 2 new smaller holes to fix the problem and keeping the stock hub. The stock S54 hub and pump disk design is similar to the early E36 S50 design, so the parts have been tested on many engines with seccess. The only issue on the S54 is the disk holes a little too large which cause the broken hub tabs problem.

Again, the issue is not the hub tabs, but the excessive backlash. Of course this can be fixed by using aftermarket hub with wider tabs to reduce backlash with factory disk, or keep the factory hub tabs but drill new smaller holes on the disk. For me it's not just the cost alone, but what if the source for that aftermarket wider tab hub is NLA? Al least there are more stock hubs on this planet than the aftermarket hubs.

[jet_dogg]

I don't like monkeying around modifying original factory parts in an irreversible fashion. The issue is with the tabs so I'd rather not alter another part it mates to in order to make it work simply due to cost reasons.

Cryo treated factory hub is laughable as well. I'd never pay a grand for that shit.

[Obioban]

I think that's the route I'm going as well.

...

why?

VAC is a shitty company that consistently makes/sells garbage. Their solution costs more than 4X a re-drilled pump disk, and is far less proven out (so more likely to have an issue). What would make you want to go this route?

[jet_dogg]

I bought the VAC exhaust hub instead of Beisan.


haven’t had a problem

I think that's the route I'm going as well.

[Obioban]

I bought the VAC exhaust hub instead of Beisan.


haven’t had a problem

Unusual result, for a VAC product!

[Advorsor]

I bought the VAC exhaust hub instead of Beisan.


haven’t had a problem

[George Hill]

My experiences:
1. Engine Failure - I have seen first hand an engine that failed from a broken tab. The tab fell out of the hub and got into the timing chain, it then rode the chain up to the exhaust cam gear where it wedged between the gear and chain this lifted the chain and broke the valve cover... it crossed over to the intake and did the same thing there too. It DID still run but it needed an oil pump disc, hub, all the gears, crank gear and a timing chain, so parts and labor wise the engine was essentially totaled (I think it had some bent valves but now I can't recall for sure). This was when I worked at the dealer, I ended up buying the car from the client, tore the engine down and refreshed it and swapped it into my first S54 touring swap.

2. Cam bolts - I've seen 200k+ mile engines with no issues and then I've seen a 39k engine have the bolts falling out. Awhile back someone suggested this was an 05/06 issue so I started watching for the cars that have the issue and other than the (2) noted in this thread it seemed like all the failures I saw were the later engines.

3. Exh hubs - Before Raj at Beisan Systems passed I asked him if he had any accounts of a tab breaking with a redrilled disc and he said that he had not heard of that. Considering the pool of engines he deals with that was good enough for me to say that a redrilled disc with a good OE hub was satisfactory. I'm aware of most (if not all) the aftermarket options and I think a stock hub on a redrilled disc is the most "solid" option. I keep hubs in stock for the times when we need them for customer cars. I just bought a bunch from a race team... lol




Interestingly all these hubs have a letter cast into them and aside from the (2) "R's" they are all different. Never really took notice of this before, anyone have any idea what that is in reference too? I assume its some kind of batch number or what not but don't know.

oceansize