Questions finalizing suspension refresh

[Tbonem3]

Well you can do what most of us have had to do over the years, try it.

[Subfra///Me]

Well you can do what most of us have had to do over the years, try it.

That's definitely one way to find out. Lol.

[cobra]

I'm in a similar boat to the OP and this is just making things wildly confusing. It seemed like the consensus around the forums was Koni/stock or Koni/Dinan was the go to for stockish-but-not-stock. Now B6s are the better stock alternative?

No reason to get confused, almost all of this commentary is anecdotal. I personally have characterized the Koni's on a shock dyno and driven 30k+ miles on the Koni/Dinan combo so I can say with decent confidence how they are. I've never driven the B6's or tested them so I have no idea anything about them other than a) the struts are inverted monotubes (technically superior to conventional twin tubes like the Konis if implemented properly), and b) Bilstein is also a reputable company. So they are probably another good option. I would totally try them out if I was going for stock replacements.

The Bilstein harsher/firmer comment - who knows what that's based on. I hope they're firmer than worn out stock shocks. Has anyone compared them back to back with the Koni's? They are also going to add spring rate due to being a gas pressurized monotube so it will raise your ride height slightly and incrementally increase stiffness. Or maybe they are tuned way too aggressively and thats why people think they're harsh.

Has anyone actually tested a new Koni and then driven it 20k miles and tested it again, and shown that the rebound damping fades over time? Or does that just seem like it makes sense?

Anyway, lots of mystery and subjective information. If anyone plans to order the B6's and wants to know how they stack up objectively PM me...

[Subfra///Me]

No reason to get confused, almost all of this commentary is anecdotal. I personally have characterized the Koni's on a shock dyno and driven 30k+ miles on the Koni/Dinan combo so I can say with decent confidence how they are. I've never driven the B6's or tested them so I have no idea anything about them other than a) the struts are inverted monotubes (technically superior to conventional twin tubes like the Konis if implemented properly), and b) Bilstein is also a reputable company. So they are probably another good option. I would totally try them out if I was going for stock replacements.

The Bilstein harsher/firmer comment - who knows what that's based on. I hope they're firmer than worn out stock shocks. Has anyone compared them back to back with the Koni's? They are also going to add spring rate due to being a gas pressurized monotube so it will raise your ride height slightly and incrementally increase stiffness. Or maybe they are tuned way too aggressively and thats why people think they're harsh.

Has anyone actually tested a new Koni and then driven it 20k miles and tested it again, and shown that the rebound damping fades over time? Or does that just seem like it makes sense?

Anyway, lots of mystery and subjective information. If anyone plans to order the B6's and wants to know how they stack up objectively PM me...

While I agree with most of what you've said regarding the B6's and Bilstein in general, any shock that alters the ride height isn't a stock for stock replacement in my opinion. I don't really want more fender gap than stock. That's why I personally would only use the B6's if they are paired with Eibachs (B12 kit).

So, it's B12 kit (possibly with camber plates to allow for full travel) or Koni/Dinan.

Really wish someone here had experience with both.

[cobra]

While I agree with most of what you've said regarding the B6's and Bilstein in general, any shock that alters the ride height isn't a stock for stock replacement in my opinion. I don't really want more fender gap than stock. That's why I personally would only use the B6's if they are paired with Eibachs (B12 kit).

So, it's B12 kit (possibly with camber plates to allow for full travel) or Koni/Dinan.

Really wish someone here had experience with both.

Every monotube shock will raise ride height. Usually on the range of a couple mm. I would still consider it a stock replacement.

Sounds like the B12 kit is what you're after. The B12's are already shortened for lowering springs, so maybe they don't really need camber plates?

[K-Dawg]

Every monotube shock will raise ride height. Usually on the range of a couple mm. I would still consider it a stock replacement.

Sounds like the B12 kit is what you're after. The B12's are already shortened for lowering springs, so maybe they don't really need camber plates?

For the E46 M3, the B12 kit is B6 dampers and Eibach springs. B6 is intended for stock height. It's been reported that the E46 M3 B6 struts have less bump travel than OE or Koni struts due in part to the large internal bump stop. There used to be a slidey image thing where you could go back and forth between pictures of the Koni and B6 struts at full compression to see the difference, but I can't find it now.

There has never been any "concensus" on what the "go-to" suspension set-up is. Back on M3Forum, EricSMG tried a lot of different stuff and liked the Bilstein B6, and then had them modified by Fat Cat and liked them even more.

You can see a still-shot of the slidey image in this thread: https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/threa...review.125709/

I recently purchased a B12 kit that I'm going to install with Turner hybrid plates. We'll see...

[Subfra///Me]

Correct. From everything I've read the B6's have less travel than the Koni Yellows or OE Sachs. That's why I would have to be ok with adding camber plates to gain back some travel if I go with the B12 kit. I know some here have mentioned they don't crash around on the stops too much, but it would have to be something to take into consideration.

I've already got the Koni's (rear TC Kline spec) and Dinan springs on hand, but am contemplating going with the B12 kit. I feel like ride quality may be a little worse, but it will probably perform a little better than the Koni's when pushed and the monotubes should last longer. Always tradeoffs I guess.

[cobra]

For the E46 M3, the B12 kit is B6 dampers and Eibach springs. B6 is intended for stock height. It's been reported that the E46 M3 B6 struts have less bump travel than OE or Koni struts due in part to the large internal bump stop. There used to be a slidey image thing where you could go back and forth between pictures of the Koni and B6 struts at full compression to see the difference, but I can't find it now.

There has never been any "concensus" on what the "go-to" suspension set-up is. Back on M3Forum, EricSMG tried a lot of different stuff and liked the Bilstein B6, and then had them modified by Fat Cat and liked them even more.

You can see a still-shot of the slidey image in this thread: https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/threa...review.125709/

I recently purchased a B12 kit that I'm going to install with Turner hybrid plates. We'll see...

Man this is confusing.

According to: https://www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk/pa...n-buying-guide

B12 Pro Kit is B8 shocks (shortened) with Eibach lowering springs. But you can't buy B8's for the M3 separately?

[Subfra///Me]

Man this is confusing.

According to: https://www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk/pa...n-buying-guide

B12 Pro Kit is B8 shocks (shortened) with Eibach lowering springs. But you can't buy B8's for the M3 separately?

B8's aren't available individually or as part of the B12 kit for the e46 M3 for some reason.

Edit: At least they aren't in the states. Not sure what specs they get in Europe.

[bmwfnatic]

Man this is confusing.

According to: https://www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk/pa...n-buying-guide

B12 Pro Kit is B8 shocks (shortened) with Eibach lowering springs. But you can't buy B8's for the M3 separately?

B8's aren't available individually or as part of the B12 kit for the e46 M3 for some reason.

Edit: At least they aren't in the states. Not sure what specs they get in Europe.

I've had the B12 kit, in Europe, but seems there is no difference in the states.
There are no B8's, not in the B12 kit either, if you look up the part numbers on the shocks from the B12 kit, they come back as B6.

I used them 'as they came', so with new stock top mounts and new stock hardware, so no camber plates to increase bump or anything.

I haven't driven them back-to-back to say a stock or Koni car either, so my opinion is a bit subjective.

The set is pretty harsh over stuff like speed bumps, not very comfortable (compared to stock), so keep that in mind if that concerns you.
However, for spirited road driving, I actually found them to be quite capable and overall performing pretty decently.

It's definitely not a track setup, but for an easy OEM+ slap it on and forget about it, go for it, 100%.
But don't think you can go 'wrong' with the Koni either, this isn't a life or death situation, just some car parts

[Subfra///Me]

I've had the B12 kit, in Europe, but seems there is no difference in the states.
There are no B8's, not in the B12 kit either, if you look up the part numbers on the shocks from the B12 kit, they come back as B6.

I used them 'as they came', so with new stock top mounts and new stock hardware, so no camber plates to increase bump or anything.

I haven't driven them back-to-back to say a stock or Koni car either, so my opinion is a bit subjective.

The set is pretty harsh over stuff like speed bumps, not very comfortable (compared to stock), so keep that in mind if that concerns you.
However, for spirited road driving, I actually found them to be quite capable and overall performing pretty decently.

It's definitely not a track setup, but for an easy OEM+ slap it on and forget about it, go for it, 100%.
But don't think you can go 'wrong' with the Koni either, this isn't a life or death situation, just some car parts

Thanks for the feedback.

Also, you are absolutely right. They are just car parts. No stress here. Sometimes it's just fun to research this stuff. Even if it's over thinking at some point.

Think I will stick with the Koni's and Dinan springs because the car will primarily be driven on the street. Seems like the easy button option to not ruin the car while most likely improving performance and ride over stock.

[cobra]

Thanks for the feedback.

Also, you are absolutely right. They are just car parts. No stress here. Sometimes it's just fun to research this stuff. Even if it's over thinking at some point.

Think I will stick with the Koni's and Dinan springs because the car will primarily be driven on the street. Seems like the easy button option to not ruin the car while most likely improving performance and ride over stock.

Report back with your review!!

I ran that setup for many thousands of miles and was happy

[Subfra///Me]

Report back with your review!!

I ran that setup for many thousands of miles and was happy

Let me do it now...

Wish I would have tried the B12's.

[01SG]

The set is pretty harsh over stuff like speed bumps, not very comfortable (compared to stock)

I agree with the first part, but not the second. I think the ride quality is perfectly comfortable, and the limitations of the kit are only noticeable over significant bumps.

Coming from my completely stock e36, for comparison, I do not find the 46 to be harsh...until you run out of travel. It rides great under normal circumstances.

Although, I do have 17 inch rims. I could see it being a different story on stock 19s.

[cobra]

I've had the B12 kit, in Europe, but seems there is no difference in the states.
There are no B8's, not in the B12 kit either, if you look up the part numbers on the shocks from the B12 kit, they come back as B6.

I used them 'as they came', so with new stock top mounts and new stock hardware, so no camber plates to increase bump or anything.

I haven't driven them back-to-back to say a stock or Koni car either, so my opinion is a bit subjective.

The set is pretty harsh over stuff like speed bumps, not very comfortable (compared to stock), so keep that in mind if that concerns you.
However, for spirited road driving, I actually found them to be quite capable and overall performing pretty decently.

It's definitely not a track setup, but for an easy OEM+ slap it on and forget about it, go for it, 100%.
But don't think you can go 'wrong' with the Koni either, this isn't a life or death situation, just some car parts

Seems kinda obvious in hindsight, when using a damper designed for stock height, when you lower it significantly it's gonna ride harsh. Odd they sell that as a kit.