Trying to decide: e46 M3 vs F82 M4 vs 997.2

[JaredU]

RCF has better performance because it's an F car, IS500 is kind of the watered down version. Definitely would take an ISF or RCF over the IS500, would take the GSF over all because it has the best chassis and performance.

I haven’t tried the new is500, but I’m sure I would take it over RC-F. I wasn’t a big fan of the RC-F, but it had the power the 350’s are missing, so a nice comfy reliable v8 sedan would be right up my alley.

Concur about the GS-F though. Would absolutely take one over is500. Prices in Canada for GS-F are comical though so had kind of forgot about it.

[Aeko]

Haven't had any seat time in an RC-F but have heard from people with our kind of background that the RC chassis is bloated/boaty/dull; perhaps the F trim addresses or masks some of that feedback. On the other hand, have seen some non-F IS chassis (plural) do some impressive canyon carving. But between some of the talk of Porsches/E36s and V8 sedans, we are still a little all over the place here, lol. I've skipped a few pages of this thread; whats your current list of possible selections looking like right now?

That's kind of the feeling I got from the RC350 F-sport was that it seemed extremely insulated compared to, say, an e39 M5. Not much communication from the tires and suspension, even though it did feel very confident. I have the same question about moving up to the RC F.

Yeah, it's kind of a mess of different cars, lol. Current list of "to drive" cars, vaguely in order of ones that seem most appealing at the top:

E9x M3
RC F
Cayman (987 if I can find one, possibly 981)
Mach 1
GR86
Supra (sat in one, need to drive it)
135 / 1M?
997.2 (if price drops. Drove 997.1 Auto)
E36 Euro spec (ZF8 swap?)
Z4M coupe?

I'm in an apartment so right now having 2 cars is pushing it. I have my daily (replacing with a hatch soon) and I'm looking to replace the e39 M5 with something easier for me to drive now that the M3 is donezo. In the back of my mind I will always be looking for the "perfect" spec e46 M3 (SMG, Estoril / Topaz / LSB?, something like Ecru interior if they even exist) so I may yet wind up back in one of those as well. Right now I just want a break from the e46.

The ZF8 is a pretty hot swap over a DCT these days it seems, and it doesn't seem super astronomical at least parts wise to swap it if I decide I am truly in love with one of the 3 pedal BMWs before committing to that.

I've also considered a 996 S or Turbo, but I really can't get over the interior styling specifically. Have looked at Q50 / Q60 redsports but I don't feel the value is there compared to something like an RC F. Really old platform and the tech like the center nav and radio is aging poorly.

Here is my friend's bone stock RCF with just springs, wheels and tires running faster times than most dedicated track cars at Buttonwillow.

https://youtu.be/tBqY9monm8o

Damn that's impressive

[EthanolTurbo]

Haven't had any seat time in an RC-F but have heard from people with our kind of background that the RC chassis is bloated/boaty/dull; perhaps the F trim addresses or masks some of that feedback. On the other hand, have seen some non-F IS chassis (plural) do some impressive canyon carving. But between some of the talk of Porsches/E36s and V8 sedans, we are still a little all over the place here, lol. I've skipped a few pages of this thread; whats your current list of possible selections looking like right now?

Here is my friend's bone stock RCF with just springs, wheels and tires running faster times than most dedicated track cars at Buttonwillow.

https://youtu.be/tBqY9monm8o

[Boost]

t44tq,

All that being said maybe I should try some of the lighter offerings like a 1M just to try it. Has anyone DCT swapped a 1M? A quick Google search turns up nothing. Maybe a 135i?

Interesting that the 1 series has only come up once in this thread. If you fancy the styling, the 2011+ 135s do come in DCT. Had a client who absolutely loved the combo of coupe/dct/n55 from the factory. You also have the 135is variants to look at.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this is the car you'll end up buying.

[Boost]

I think every enthusiast car of the past decade has been brought up here. I think parameters need to be refined: rwd or awd, turbo or Na, autocross capable or comfortable..

Alright I caught up w/ the thread and agree with the sentiment here. We've eliminated a lot of cars. Make a list of whatever candidates/criteria remain and continue picking it apart from there.

[Boost]

Haven't had any seat time in an RC-F but have heard from people with our kind of background that the RC chassis is bloated/boaty/dull; perhaps the F trim addresses or masks some of that feedback. On the other hand, have seen some non-F IS chassis (plural) do some impressive canyon carving. But between some of the talk of Porsches/E36s and V8 sedans, we are still a little all over the place here, lol. I've skipped a few pages of this thread; whats your current list of possible selections looking like right now?

[EthanolTurbo]

Any substantial difference other than number of doors between something like RC F and IS500? I'm leaning towards the coupe is why I ask

RCF has better performance because it's an F car, IS500 is kind of the watered down version. Definitely would take an ISF or RCF over the IS500, would take the GSF over all because it has the best chassis and performance.

[Aeko]

Sounds like the is500 is your car

Any substantial difference other than number of doors between something like RC F and IS500? I'm leaning towards the coupe is why I ask

[JaredU]

It's possible it wasn't in Manual mode as I only spent 10 minutes in the car and didn't get a chance to really go over all the controls, thanks for the input!

I realize now the RC F I saw was the track package, that's why it was so expensive. The normal spec ones are actually very reasonable... I may have to scope one out. The reliability and comfort is a pretty big draw... I would like to be able to drive it 500 miles without a second thought if I could have it all.

Sounds like the is500 is your car

[EthanolTurbo]

I don't know if you saw, I drove the 2018 RC350 F sport and I'm not sure what kind of transmission it has but it tended to want to upshift on its own constantly. Do you know if the cars you listed have the same tendency? If not, they might be a good option. Before I bought my e46 M3 I really wanted an IS-F but I simply couldn't find one for sale. An RCF might be awesome! I did see one at a dealer lot but they wanted waaaay to much for me to consider it at the time.

Gotta put it in manual mode. The default drive mode is more for comfort and fuel efficiency. I think you should take an extended test drive in them.

[Aeko]

I just re-read your post on the RC… it wouldnt let you down shift in manual mode?

I use to daily an is350 and it will downshift no problem as long as that down shift doesn’t send the RPM passed redline. It also won’t upshift in manual mode unless you do it from what I remember. The car has an RR Racing tune on it though, not sure if that plays into it and I can’t remember what it was like before.

If you liked the RC, what about is500? I am debating switching mine for this, or an older IS-F. I find the 350 lacks about 100hp, albeit for higher reliability. I bought mine as I was commuting about 600kms a week and wanted something to rack miles on with high reliability.

That being said, although a bit boring in my opinion and not the greatest on fuel either, it is comfortable, and astonighingly reliable. It’s a 2015, and I bought it with 20k on it. Within 2 years I was up to 100k and other than regular oil changes etc, I’ve only had to replace the light bulb in the trunk.

It has pretty much been parked though since the beginning of covid, as I bought a Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor, and that has become my daily now

It's possible it wasn't in Manual mode as I only spent 10 minutes in the car and didn't get a chance to really go over all the controls, thanks for the input!

I realize now the RC F I saw was the track package, that's why it was so expensive. The normal spec ones are actually very reasonable... I may have to scope one out. The reliability and comfort is a pretty big draw... I would like to be able to drive it 500 miles without a second thought if I could have it all.

[JaredU]

I don't know if you saw, I drove the 2018 RC350 F sport and I'm not sure what kind of transmission it has but it tended to want to upshift on its own constantly. Do you know if the cars you listed have the same tendency? If not, they might be a good option. Before I bought my e46 M3 I really wanted an IS-F but I simply couldn't find one for sale. An RCF might be awesome! I did see one at a dealer lot but they wanted waaaay to much for me to consider it at the time.

I just re-read your post on the RC… it wouldnt let you down shift in manual mode?

I use to daily an is350 and it will downshift no problem as long as that down shift doesn’t send the RPM passed redline. It also won’t upshift in manual mode unless you do it from what I remember. The car has an RR Racing tune on it though, not sure if that plays into it and I can’t remember what it was like before.

If you liked the RC, what about is500? I am debating switching mine for this, or an older IS-F. I find the 350 lacks about 100hp, albeit for higher reliability. I bought mine as I was commuting about 600kms a week and wanted something to rack miles on with high reliability.

That being said, although a bit boring in my opinion and not the greatest on fuel either, it is comfortable, and astonighingly reliable. It’s a 2015, and I bought it with 20k on it. Within 2 years I was up to 100k and other than regular oil changes etc, I’ve only had to replace the light bulb in the trunk.

It has pretty much been parked though since the beginning of covid, as I bought a Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor, and that has become my daily now

[Aeko]

What about a 2012+ ISF, RCF or GSF? Each offers bulletproof reliability, stable resale values, excellent performance on and off track, good aftermarket support, a fun throaty engine that'll take a beating and never let you down, along with very nice 8 speed transmissions. They're kind of an unsung hero amongst daily driven V8 performance cars.

I don't know if you saw, I drove the 2018 RC350 F sport and I'm not sure what kind of transmission it has but it tended to want to upshift on its own constantly. Do you know if the cars you listed have the same tendency? If not, they might be a good option. Before I bought my e46 M3 I really wanted an IS-F but I simply couldn't find one for sale. An RCF might be awesome! I did see one at a dealer lot but they wanted waaaay to much for me to consider it at the time.

[IamFODI]

Had to delete a post or two. Let's not get personal, guys.

Can we get this back on track, or do we have to lock the thread?

[IamFODI]

Was called into this thread because... Well, for obvious reasons.

Aeko: Your backlash is completely understandable. It sucks to be on the defensive at all times amidst people who don't understand and might not even want to. Especially because we pro-manual folks can get pretty elitist and aggressive. I can see how that might prompt you to feel excluded and defensive.

I also think your comments also get at something else that's vital: we should be giving each other the benefit of the doubt. It's not for others to offer unsolicited judgments of your preferences.

Let me assure you that I don't think anyone here meant to call you to account for your disability. I bet if you had said at the outset that you don't want stick for physiological reasons, everyone – including Nate047 – would have advised you accordingly, in good faith. I know a lot of manual elitists, including some real jerks – and not one is enough of a jerk to extend their elitism to people with physiological concerns that make driving stick difficult.

We're all buying and driving the cars we can, each of us for their own constellation of reasons and constraints. It's been my experience that, when people are open about the barriers they've overcome to join the community, that generally makes people more welcoming, not less – and the bigger the barrier, the heartier the welcome. Some exceptions, but that seems to be the rule. If anyone cares to prove the opposite, fuck around and find out.

I need to offer a mea culpa: I was among the people who initially misread your reason for not wanting stick. Not knowing you personally, I had assumed your comment was a preemptive and dismissive reaction to the pro-manual crowd, of whom I'm a loud-and-proud member. Looking back on it now, I can't see anything that makes any other interpretation obvious in the absence of background info. So, I can completely understand how others would read your comment differently from how you intended it. That might be worth bearing in mind in the future.

This all looks to me like a genuine and understandable miscommunication, so I'm not going to take any mod action on any posts made thus far. Let's all take lessons from this and move on.