Trying to decide: e46 M3 vs F82 M4 vs 997.2

[t44tq]

Comparing a GTR to an F80 isn't saying much- we're in an E46 M3 forum, why are you not comparing it to the E46 M3?

OP- if you feel that the E46 M3 had poor feel, then all of the cars you mention are not going to improve much and more likely, will be far worse. You need to look at much lighter cars if your impression was that the E46 M3 had zero feel. Start looking at Lotus Elise/Exige, longhood 911s, Miata. I've never driven an Alfa 4C, but that might be something to consider as well.

High curb weight, electric power assist steering, super-wide tires, all of these will make the steering feel bad. I noticed when I went from stock tire configuration to 265 square, the steering feel suffered quite a bit.

[Aeko]

Now this makes no sense- the recirculating ball steering in the E39 M5 isn't as precise nor does it have as much feel as the E46 M3's rack and pinion steering. If your M3 is that bad, you probably have old supension bushings, maybe need an alignment, new tie rod ends, steering column bushing is bad, etc.

The 997.2 is fun to drive, for sure. I think they're great cars.

To be honest I wondered if the rack was bad in that M3. It just had zero steering feel. I replaced the control arms and bushings. Tie rods were tight, steering column disc replaced, car tracked straight and had no excessive wear indication on the front tires. The feel was similar to my e46 330ci (non ZHP yellow tag) but a bit heavier because I was running 255 squared on it. I did drive it with 225 fronts and I don't think it made much of a difference. It almost felt kind of like the shitty progressive rack in the e36 m3.

I test drove a 997.1 auto because it was the only one close by I could find. Honestly, it gave me about the same amount of "fun" feeling as my M3 did... but at a lot steeper price. Not sure I can justify the price difference that but it handled and drove pretty well. AFAIK the 997.2 is exactly the same steering wise to the 997.1, correct?

Still trying to find an e90 M3 and Mach 1 to drive. Most used dealers are only open during my working hours so trying to line up a time to test drive is tricky.

I did stop by a dealer that had an e90 M3 sedan (no test drives) and it wasn't too bad looking in person, I'll confirm. Not my favorite but not terrible. The interior is decent enough I'll try to find one to give it a shot and see if I really like it.

[Jickel180]

GTR drives like a video game- zero feel.

Spoken like someone who hasn't driven one. The GTR has a ton of control feel through the wheel and pedals - more than any F8x BMW that's for sure.

[Icecream]

GTR drives like a video game- zero feel.

I have heard this before but without having driven one, I can't say how exaggerated that statement is. All I know is it is a very capable car, makes alot of drivetrain noises and sounds like a pretty raw experience. Can't imagine it's not an amazing car to drive.

[t44tq]

GTR.
Did this come up already?

GTR drives like a video game- zero feel.

[t44tq]

Can the C2S be as fun on the street as the e46 M3?

Another point of comparison here, the steering in my e39 M5 feels more enjoyable to me the M3 did. I love being able to change the weight in sport mode, but I honestly prefer the lighter weight because I have shoulder issues. The on center feel is infinitely better and seems more connected. If I moved the wheel even a few mm I could feel the car start to change direction whereas the M3 I could hardly tell the wheel was doing anything.

Now this makes no sense- the recirculating ball steering in the E39 M5 isn't as precise nor does it have as much feel as the E46 M3's rack and pinion steering. If your M3 is that bad, you probably have old supension bushings, maybe need an alignment, new tie rod ends, steering column bushing is bad, etc.

The 997.2 is fun to drive, for sure. I think they're great cars.

[t44tq]

BUT I already have my E46 and I am looking to get a sedan with a dct/dsg as a daily that my wife can drive it without hassle as well. So in that case an RS3 could be an option. I am still deciding between that and an E90. I currently have a B8 A4 avant. It's slow but comfortable and nice. I'm just looking for a fast and modern upgrade to that. After experiencing launch control in an RS3 I can assure you it is not a boring car, at least when you're putting the hammer down.

If you're going to get something that has no feel like a video game, then go ahead, get the RS3. Steering feel is bad, FWD based chassis is not ideal, transverse engine is not ideal. If you're talking about straight line speed, they're totally slow compared to the 5.5L biturbo V8 AMGs and even more the V-12 biturbo AMGs.

I would look at Cadillacs before any Audi unless you must have AWD. The ATS-V, 2nd/3rd gen CTS-V, and the Blackwings are quite good in their driving experience (not talking about their build quality, prestige, materials choice, etc.).

[Icecream]

Too far out of my price range

Ah, yeah, gonna be high miles for anything near these other cars.

[Aeko]

GTR.
Did this come up already?

Too far out of my price range

[oceansize]

Are there any appreciable differences in things like interior quality / trim materials between a Mach 1 and GT? And it seems like the performance package is mostly just... brakes, diff, and some other kind of superfluous stuff like gauges?

The interior of a well spec'd GT is close but I recall the Mach 1 as being better. I think it was the gauge cluster mostly and little touches if I remember correctly.

GT Performance package doesn't have magneride or active exhaust. To me both are a must have. So on top of the GT performance package you would still have to get magneride and active exhaust as add-ons. Say $55k to $58k new or close to new.

GT Perf Package Includes:
• 19"x9" (F) 19" x 9.5" (R) Ebony Black Painted Aluminum Wheels
• 255/40 R10 (F) 275/40 R19 (R) (Summer Only) Tires
• Brembo™ Six-Piston Front Brake Calipers - Black with Larger Rotors
• "Engine Spun" Aluminum instrument Panel
• Gauge Pack (Oil Pressure and Vacuum)
• Heavy-duty Front Springs
• K-Brace
• Larger Radiator
• Performance Rear Wing
• Black Painted Strut-Tower Brace
• TORSEN® Differential with 3.73 Axle Ratio (Manual)
• TORSEN® Differential with 3.55 Axle Ration (Automatic)
• Unique Chassis Tuning
• Unique Stability Control, EPAS and ABS Tuning
• Upsized Rear Sway Bar
• Front Splitter


The Mach 1 has magneride and the active exhaust by default and then you can add the Mach 1 Handling package.

The Mach 1 Handling Package Includes
• 19” X 10.5” (F) 19” X 11” (R) Tarnished Dark-painted Aluminum Wheels
• 305/30R19 (F) 315/30R19 (R) Tires
• Performance Rear Spoiler with Gurney Flap
• Performance Front Aero Splitter
• Revised Chassis Tuning
• Rear-Seat – Split-bench, folding
• Rear-Wheel Lip Molding – Black
• Adjustable Strut Top Mounts (Installed at the plant)

My two current Fords:

[Icecream]

GTR.
Did this come up already?

[Aeko]

wildcard option for OP, Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio

Not a fan of Alfa styling or Italian reliability issues

OP after reading all your comments and others you owe to yourself to drive a Mach 1 Automatic. Find one local and drive it. I'll be surprised if you don't like it.

Bet. There's one near me, I'm going to see if they'll actually let me drive it tomorrow.

Well optioned GT PP 10 speed is almost the same car for a fraction of the price.

Are there any appreciable differences in things like interior quality / trim materials between a Mach 1 and GT? And it seems like the performance package is mostly just... brakes, diff, and some other kind of superfluous stuff like gauges?


Finally test drove an F82 M4 today, decided it wasn't the car for me. I really liked it but I totally get why people say the E46 feels more analog. I absolutely LOVE the look and interior of the F8x but the turbo L6 doesn't really do it for me noise wise, and the driving experience on road use makes it feel kind of like a toy to me even at spirited driving speeds.

Also test drove an RC350 F-sport for shits and giggles while I was there, and I have to say I was very impressed with it. The interior is phenomenal and overall it drove and rode very well, albeit it was much more insulated feeling in both the steering and road feel and noise. Side note: ventilated seats ROCK here in Texas. If the next car I buy was ever optioned with them I'm going to look for that or retrofit them if possible. Honestly the biggest problem with the RC350, other than the fact it's so quiet I thought I was doing 45 when I was actually going 90, is that it nannies the shifts. I think I was at about 3,500 RPM in 3rd and slowing down, and it would NOT let me downshift. The M4 (and also my M3) didn't care and let me downshift it right up to redline as long as it had a low enough engine speed. I drove a new G70 before my M3 was totaled and it had the same shift nannies.

Still looking for a Carrera or maybe Cayman near me to test drive, and an E9x M3 for good measure. Went by one place but it looks like they closed early.

[oceansize]

I did read his posts. I was just saying that it doesn't really make sense to get the Mach 1 if it's not a manual. Well optioned GT PP 10 speed is almost the same car for a fraction of the price.

I would need to drive both side by side in automatic form to see what the difference in tuning is and how that impacts fun factor. Oil coolers can be had aftermarket. So yeah, wouldn't argue too hard.

[stephen]

You didn't read OPs later posts, he needs an automatic for what sounds like health reasons. I wouldn't argue a used PP with magneride and active exhaust. Good car. I just love the styling, and my Tremec, in my Mach 1 (I have a manual).

I did read his posts. I was just saying that it doesn't really make sense to get the Mach 1 if it's not a manual. Well optioned GT PP 10 speed is almost the same car for a fraction of the price.

[oceansize]

Why not just get a PP GT used for half that? TBH it seems like the Mach 1 is a waste if you're not getting the manual for the Tremec.

You didn't read OPs later posts, he needs an automatic for what sounds like health reasons. I wouldn't argue a used PP with magneride and active exhaust (new is $53k to $57k). Good car. I just love the styling, and my Tremec, in my Mach 1 (I have a manual).