Camber/Caster Plates - Pros and Cons?

[Amos]

This is what GC camber plates did to my strut towers after about a year.

I installed the reinforcement plates and it hasn't gotten worse since then, been over 10 years now.

I just ordered this to reinforce the strut tower and I'm gonna put a strut brace on top as wwll

https://tech-53.com/product/e46-strut-tower-reinforcement-plate/

[bigjae46]

Are you saying a good weld can't look good? Good and pretty aren't mutually exclusive my guy.

You brought it up. Now please…do tell…what’s the issue with those welds?

but…a pretty weld can be good, can also be bad. There are many variables to consider. Sometimes, a weld has to be ugly to prevent failure.

[cobra]

These are both '00 model tourings, one was on Bilsten PSS with stock Non-M strut mounts (same surface area roughly as the camber plates) and the other was on ASTs with M3 camber plates.

I think I have a set of stock, non-m, vorshlag, GC and TMS plates here I'll see if I can lay them all out for a pic.

Yikes, those are scary pics.

Please take that pic, I am super interested!

[George Hill]

These are both '00 model tourings, one was on Bilsten PSS with stock Non-M strut mounts (same surface area roughly as the camber plates) and the other was on ASTs with M3 camber plates.

I think I have a set of stock, non-m, vorshlag, GC and TMS plates here I'll see if I can lay them all out for a pic.

[fattycharged]

Are you saying a good weld can't look good? Good and pretty aren't mutually exclusive my guy.

How about efficient and good? When you're making a thousand of these at a time, efficiency is key, not aesthetics

Though I like the new to me, pressed-in bolts that GC supplies now better than the tacked

[jet_dogg]

What exactly is wrong with the welds?

Most people can't tell a good weld from a bad weld. That is a tack weld. It is a good weld because the heat affected zone is small and there is fusion. Doesn't look good but does it really matter in this application? An ugly weld can be a lot stronger than a good looking weld.

Lots of misinformation about welds. It is common to think a good weld in titanium is colorful...actually a good weld is colorless. Color indicates loss of shielding which weakens the weld and results in corrosion. You can have a uniform pretty looking bead around and exhaust pipe and the weld will fail because it wasn't back purged.

Are you saying a good weld can't look good? Good and pretty aren't mutually exclusive my guy.

[bigjae46]

Dafuq is goin on with those welds son.

What exactly is wrong with the welds?

Most people can't tell a good weld from a bad weld. That is a tack weld. It is a good weld because the heat affected zone is small and there is fusion. Doesn't look good but does it really matter in this application? An ugly weld can be a lot stronger than a good looking weld.

Lots of misinformation about welds. It is common to think a good weld in titanium is colorful...actually a good weld is colorless. Color indicates loss of shielding which weakens the weld and results in corrosion. You can have a uniform pretty looking bead around and exhaust pipe and the weld will fail because it wasn't back purged.

[jet_dogg]

Dafuq is goin on with those welds son.

[SQ13]

Reinforcement plates with Vorshlag camber plates. Might be a good idea to get the reinforcement plates if you’re running Vorshlag or GC camber plates lol.

[bigjae46]

See that's what I originally thought.
But then I started hearing about people having noticeably better steering feel and damping control because there's no longer a flexible rubber joint there that is able to bounce and twist. I am wondering if there's any validity to that statement (practically speaking)

I have a hard time believing that most can tell if it’s better or just stiffer. Removing the rubber will make the car more responsive.

[Bry5on]

There’s noticeably better damping control with solid bearing mounted in my experience, but you pay for it in NVH, especially the harsher hits. It’s of course a spectrum in between. Steering feel is also a bit more connected.

Best/easiest comparison I’ve seen is GT3 vs 911, much sharper in the GT3, less street focused. I went from stock M3 on my e46, to urethane camber plates, then back to stock due to NVH. If you’re using yours as a weekend car, it could be a worthwhile thing to try. Personal preference based on your roads and tolerance. I find compliance to be fast here in the bay.

[cobra]

The only reason to go with a camber plate is for camber and caster adjustments. I'd just stay with stock. Otherwise, Vorshlag is a known quantity for camber plates.

If you want moar camber for the track then use the non-M plate.

See that's what I originally thought.
But then I started hearing about people having noticeably better steering feel and damping control because there's no longer a flexible rubber joint there that is able to bounce and twist. I am wondering if there's any validity to that statement (practically speaking)

[bigjae46]

The only reason to go with a camber plate is for camber and caster adjustments. I'd just stay with stock. Otherwise, Vorshlag is a known quantity for camber plates.

If you want moar camber for the track then use the non-M plate.

[Amos]

Do your GC plates have the stainless steel reinforcement ring pictured above?

What suspension and ride height are you running?

I have the full GC Sport/street kit and it does have those metal rings. I'm lowered by abiut an inch vs stock height.

The outline on the shock towers was from the outer edges of those metal rings

[George Hill]

Also fwiw, the GC on my car were never run with reinforcement plates and I have no damage to the strut tower. I used to track the car, even with slicks.

Thats impressive, how many miles?

*EDIT: Also, were you running a strut tower brace and if so, which one?