Hey everyone,
I was reading another thread on why e85 is still in our fuel supply and thought to myself, we could have an e85 thread to respond to some of these most common questions and debates. I saw that some people really know the fuel while others do not. Let's be kind to one another and supply research (rather than opinions) in order to educate ourselves on this fuel.
This is a curious debate that I've had for a while now - even before I bought my M3. My car came with a Pro-Commander e85 FlexFuel kit on it. So far in my ownership of about 7 months, I absolutely love running e85. For the power benefits, the fact that it's on a closed-loop Co2 system for the environment and the cost factor (before the market tanked for normal petrol).
Anyway, let's come to this thread with knowledge and supporting one another in the pursuit of understanding this fuel and how our cars may OR may not benefit from it.
The format to post a piece of article/research could go like this:
😃🤙
Jonathan
I was reading another thread on why e85 is still in our fuel supply and thought to myself, we could have an e85 thread to respond to some of these most common questions and debates. I saw that some people really know the fuel while others do not. Let's be kind to one another and supply research (rather than opinions) in order to educate ourselves on this fuel.
This is a curious debate that I've had for a while now - even before I bought my M3. My car came with a Pro-Commander e85 FlexFuel kit on it. So far in my ownership of about 7 months, I absolutely love running e85. For the power benefits, the fact that it's on a closed-loop Co2 system for the environment and the cost factor (before the market tanked for normal petrol).
Anyway, let's come to this thread with knowledge and supporting one another in the pursuit of understanding this fuel and how our cars may OR may not benefit from it.
The format to post a piece of article/research could go like this:
- Title and link of Article or piece of research found
- Background / Legitimacy on the author (if available)
- Your learnings from the article
- Questions to the forum
- Clearing Up Myths About E85 And Ethanol: 16 Things You Need To Know - Click here.
- Author: Jeff Smith, freelance Auto Journalist - Click here.
- Here are some of my main takeaways from the article which I think you might be able to learn from:
- Q: I’ve heard that ethanol is corrosive.
A: Ethanol by itself is not corrosive. E98 will likely contain an average of 0.5-percent water. This is because it is extremely expensive to remove that last bit of water. When ethanol is mixed with sufficient amounts of water, this can cause corrosion, but the effects can be minimized with easy steps such as keeping the fuel tank full when the vehicle is stored. Oddly, ethanol is also an excellent cleaner and will remove deposits often left by “bad gas.” Ethanol is often mistaken or linked with a fuel called methanol, a wood- or petroleum-based alcohol that is especially corrosive when stored in solution with bare aluminum. Ethanol is not an acid and has little effect on aluminum fuel system components. - Q: What is the difference between ethanol and methanol? I’ve heard that methanol is nasty stuff and really corrosive.
A: Ethanol (sometimes referred to as E98) is simply no different than distilled spirits – sippin’ whiskey, if you will. The other 2-percent is gasoline, so it should definitely not be consumed. This fuel offers many of the benefits of using alcohol as a fuel with fewer of the negative side effects. Methanol is often called wood alcohol, or it can be made from natural gas. Methanol is toxic and should not be ingested. Methanol also has a lower heat content. However the BTU (heat) content of methanol is roughly half that of gasoline, which means you have to burn twice as much to make the same heat. Methanol is also more corrosive than ethanol, which is why ethanol is a better choice for street-driven engines. Indy cars prior to 2006 used methanol, converted for a short time to E98 and now run E85. NASCAR recently switched to Green E15 for the Cup cars. - Q: Why does an engine require more E85 to make power compared to gasoline?
A: This has to do with ethanol’s chemical makeup. Because ethanol contains oxygen, it produces less heat for the same volume of fuel. As an example, a gallon of gasoline typically will produce 114,000 BTUs of heat while ethanol comes in at a lower rating of 76,600 BTUs per gallon. You will read estimates of 15- to 18-percent loss in mileage-per-gallon when using E85 compared to gasoline in flex-fuel vehicles (FFV). But an interesting change occurs with E85. It has a much greater cooling effect on the inlet air than gasoline and also delivers a much higher 98 to 100 octane rating. For any engine that can benefit from a fuel with a higher octane, it’s common to see a significant power improvement when using E85. This is especially true with supercharged or turbocharged engines. For naturally-aspirated, street-driven vehicles, there will be a mileage penalty with E85 compared to gasoline. - Q: I hear one of the advantages of E85 is something called heat of vaporization. What does that mean?
A: The term most commonly used is latent heat of vaporization. What this refers to is the amount of heat required to convert a liquid—in this case E85—into a gas or vapor at a constant temperature and pressure. What this means is that when ethanol vaporizes, it pulls heat out of the air in the process, which cools the surrounding air. Ethanol has three times the cooling effect, by volume, than gasoline and four times the cooling based on BTU content. Cooling the inlet air simultaneously reduces the engine’s sensitivity to octane. This is why engines tend to knock or detonate with higher inlet air temperatures. When E85 fuel vaporizes in the intake manifold, it cools the air, making the engine less sensitive to detonation - Q: I hear that E85 is not really E85 anymore. What is it?
A: The American section of the International Society for Testing and Measurements (ASTM) fuel standards and other regulatory rules now call out Ethanol Flex Fuel instead of E85. This allows the fuel regulations to provide the same fuel properties throughout the entire country to be anywhere from E51 to E83. If that sounds confusing—it’s because it is! The point is you will need to be aware of the fuel coming out of that yellow-handled pump—it often will not be true E85.
- Q: I’ve heard that ethanol is corrosive.
- Questions to y'all -
- What is your main concern when running e85 in your car? Mine has been this debate about seals over time. Although, my continuous debate with a friend of mine back in Germany (I lived there for 10 years and just moved back) who is a PhD in Petrol Engine design and specialized in petrol fuel is always that ethanol is hands down the best fuel to run. For environmental purposes but also for engine self-care and cleaning. I'll see if I can't get some research from him and or slides to share from some of his technical presentations to add to this discussion.
😃🤙
Jonathan
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