Vanos noise

[SteelGreyM]

Hi all. Haven’t driven my m3 in almost a year now! Started it up the other day and I noticed a sound coming from the vanos. Go ahead and listen. It seems to be coming from the exhaust hub.

https://youtube.com/shorts/KvdKeFUoozc?feature=share

Well I have taken it all apart… and everything checks out normal. Is this noise normal?! I don’t remember hearing it. And no, car didn’t have any codes and ran amazing.

Cam bolts are tight. Hub bolts are all tight. I’m really stuck here…

(I will upload another video of everything taken apart when it finishes processing in 10 minutes)

[Slideways]

Can it still be heard with both belts removed to rule out a pulley? It is definitely not supposed to sound like that.

[SteelGreyM]

https://youtu.be/7fZn-Z_2v-Q

Here is my current situation

[cobra]

That noise does not seem normal. Were the outer hex bolts tight holding the hub to the gear?

How does the oil pump disk look? Are you using one with the smaller holes?

[SteelGreyM]

Can it still be heard with both belts removed to rule out a pulley? It is definitely not supposed to sound like that.

Spoke with Lama over at Beisan just now. Found out Raj died a year and a half ago due to covid. So sad to hear… a true pioneer in the S54 community and amazing resource.

Anyway, she is going to listen to the video and also send it over to their “motor guy in Germany” to listen to. I'll report back tonight with what they say.

Really hoping it's just vanos rattle…

[SteelGreyM]

That noise does not seem normal. Were the outer hex bolts tight holding the hub to the gear?

How does the oil pump disk look? Are you using one with the smaller holes?

Everything tight and yes I'm using both Beisan oil pump disk and hub!

[SteelGreyM]

Update: Beisan and their German tech both say it's the normal vanos rattle… I need to install the anti rattle kit. Thats the only thing I skimped on with the vanos work I did. She was shocked i'm just now getting the rattle at 150k

[sapote]

Haven’t driven my m3 in almost a year now! Started it up the other day and I noticed a sound coming from the vanos.
Beisan and their German tech both say it's the normal vanos rattle…

The rattle noise is high frequency and associated with the quick acc/dec , and so vanos rattling does make sense. However, vanos rattling is a progressing process -- bearing wear with time leads to more clearance then oscillation/rattle, but you seem to say this noise just happens suddenly, so how can the needle roller bearing just have excessive clearance now?.

I'm think if something in the hollow cams/pressure valve that block the oil flow needed to lube the said roller bearing.

[SteelGreyM]

The rattle noise is high frequency and associated with the quick acc/dec , and so vanos rattling does make sense. However, vanos rattling is a progressing process -- bearing wear with time leads to more clearance then oscillation/rattle, but you seem to say this noise just happens suddenly, so how can the needle roller bearing just have excessive clearance now?.

I'm think if something in the hollow cams/pressure valve that block the oil flow needed to lube the said roller bearing.

Perhaps I never noticed it before. But I will continue to investigate. When I spin the oil pump disk with my finger I can hear some suction noises so I'm guessing that is okay.

I'll order the rattle kit and see if that fixes it. If not it's only $100.

[sapote]

Perhaps I never noticed it before. But I will continue to investigate. When I spin the oil pump disk with my finger I can hear some suction noises so I'm guessing that is okay.

I'll order the rattle kit and see if that fixes it. If not it's only $100.

The roller bearings plays can be checked easily in your hands. If no plays is detected then don't waste time to install the kit and this is not plug n play -- the kit can cause bearing lock up if the spacer ring is not lapped to the correct thickness.

[SteelGreyM]

Anyone have their Vanos unit apart by chance? I never got around to putting it back together. I'm debating buying a used set of splined shafts on eBay to see if they feel different.

When I grab the threads of the splined shaft with one hand and grab the other end with my other and pull them apart (axial play?) I can feel a resistance when it's spun. As if the needle bearings inside the splined shaft have failed. Is this possible?

What I am simulating is the splined shaft getting pulled in and out (by the only area which it's attached that being the threads) while spinning.

Any one have their unit apart and can test if they feel similar resistance??

[cobra]

Anyone have their Vanos unit apart by chance? I never got around to putting it back together. I'm debating buying a used set of splined shafts on eBay to see if they feel different.

When I grab the threads of the splined shaft with one hand and grab the other end with my other and pull them apart (axial play?) I can feel a resistance when it's spun. As if the needle bearings inside the splined shaft have failed. Is this possible?

What I am simulating is the splined shaft getting pulled in and out (by the only area which it's attached that being the threads) while spinning.

Any one have their unit apart and can test if they feel similar resistance??

The little spindle needs to be perfectly concentric with the splined shaft body to spin freely, otherwise the rollers will be sliding instead of rolling.

If there is appreciable resistance to rotation other than just the thickness of the oil then it doesnt sound right. Usually a failure does not manifest itself like this, but by getting too loose. Beisan sells new bearings/washers to tighten it up.

[sapote]

When I grab the threads of the splined shaft with one hand and grab the other end with my other and pull them apart (axial play?) I can feel a resistance when it's spun. As if the needle bearings inside the splined shaft have failed. Is this possible?

You're not making sense. How can the shaft spin when the threaded end is pulled while holding the other end? It either has the plays or no, but nothing can spin when it is pulling apart axially.

[SteelGreyM]

You're not making sense. How can the shaft spin when the threaded end is pulled while holding the other end? It either has the plays or no, but nothing can spin when it is pulling apart axially.

If I grab these 2 spots and pull them apart while twisting I can feel a “grinding” and resistance.

I’ll post a video shortly

As far as I can tell the splined shaft receives those forces

[Slideways]

Anyone have their Vanos unit apart by chance? I never got around to putting it back together. I'm debating buying a used set of splined shafts on eBay to see if they feel different.

When I grab the threads of the splined shaft with one hand and grab the other end with my other and pull them apart (axial play?) I can feel a resistance when it's spun. As if the needle bearings inside the splined shaft have failed. Is this possible?

What I am simulating is the splined shaft getting pulled in and out (by the only area which it's attached that being the threads) while spinning.

Any one have their unit apart and can test if they feel similar resistance??

Did you take them apart for the rattle kit? Typically, I'd leave the splined shafts alone, but if there is significant play or noise, then it is worth taking apart for a rebuild.