Where Are We Buying CSL Bumpers These Days?

[Epoustouflant]

Ah ok and why would you think I could not get these passes on my own. You seem to be talking down to someone who has been on this industry much much longer than you FYI 🤣🤣🤣. Any way Good luck with SEMA.

Been at it since '08 on my end, congrats on the further longevity.

My bad on the assumptions, it says senior member on the left. I figured anyone looking to make money here with group buys and such should be titled commercial vendors. It causes further confusion on the mobile app according to the other guy.

IamFODI am I doing this right?

[0-60motorsports]

You're welcome!

Because SEMA is an awesome private event for the industry and passes are required with a SEMA membership and proof of relevant participation to the industry.

Cheers.

Ah ok and why would you think I could not get these passes on my own. You seem to be talking down to someone who has been on this industry much much longer than you FYI 🤣🤣🤣. Any way Good luck with SEMA.

[Epoustouflant]

Ah ok thank you for the reply GB man. 🤣👍🏼

Why would you think I am dying for free SEMA passes?

You're welcome!

Because SEMA is an awesome private event for the industry and passes are required with a SEMA membership and proof of relevant participation to the industry.

Even if you're being coy, I think meeting in real life always dampens the mood - we're just people.

Cheers.

[0-60motorsports]

I chat with brands and suppliers every other day, even active competitors.

The antagonism that some believe exists between brands just isn't there in reality. I'll talk to him about the weather if I want, Las Vegas is really nice in November - none of which is your business to be honest.

Fly out to Vegas, I'll get you free passes if you'd like. SEMA is an experience like no other.

Ah ok thank you for the reply GB man. 🤣👍🏼

Why would you think I am dying for free SEMA passes?

[Epoustouflant]

Ah ok, you'll chat to them about what exactly? About GBing if it meets your hype expectations?

I chat with brands and suppliers every other day, even active competitors.

The antagonism that some believe exists between brands just isn't there in reality. I'll talk to him about the weather if I want, Las Vegas is really nice in November - none of which is your business to be honest.

Fly out to Vegas, I'll get you free passes if you'd like. SEMA is an experience like no other.

[0-60motorsports]

Unnecessary hype on what is looking to be a pre-preg & autoclave part. There's no reinventing that process unless he's found reliable Eastern suppliers to undercut the market - but this is Vorsteiner, inexpensive has never been Peter's way.

From the looks of the picture you posted, it seems he's doing a 1:1 trunk design. That's great - there are none of those around. Karbonius altered the interior design and Slon went for ultra light weight. A new center console option would be nice considering Karbonius' latest price increase.

Peter already posted he's bought a diffuser, trunk and bumper. There are already 1:1 replicas of the diffuser and bumper's design & manufacturing process. If it wasn't for MileEnd leaving the market, there would have been no point to the other replicas on the market. He had it cornered on quality and price - just no availability and production scale.

I'm all for being surprised and will probably be at SEMA to see the car in person. I'll chat with them if it's 80% of what you hype it to be.

Ah ok, you'll chat to them about what exactly? About GBing if it meets your hype expectations?

[Epoustouflant]

All I know is all the CF CSL parts and more that are sold in the market now…..they are going to make….good times…

Unnecessary hype on what is looking to be a pre-preg & autoclave part. There's no reinventing that process unless he's found reliable Eastern suppliers to undercut the market - but this is Vorsteiner, inexpensive has never been Peter's way.

From the looks of the picture you posted, it seems he's doing a 1:1 trunk design. That's great - there are none of those around. Karbonius altered the interior design and Slon went for ultra light weight. A new center console option would be nice considering Karbonius' latest price increase.

Peter already posted he's bought a diffuser, trunk and bumper. There are already 1:1 replicas of the diffuser and bumper's design & manufacturing process. If it wasn't for MileEnd leaving the market, there would have been no point to the other replicas on the market. He had it cornered on quality and price - just no availability and production scale.

I'm all for being surprised and will probably be at SEMA to see the car in person. I'll chat with them if it's 80% of what you hype it to be.

[0-60motorsports]

Do you have any info on whether or not this is going to be a limited run for the parts? (Sorry if you already mentioned this and I just missed it)

I don't know why it would be a limited run. It shouldn't be. I'll be getting on a call asap with Peter at Vorst/GW and will let you all know what the story is. All I know is all the CF CSL parts and more that are sold in the market now…..they are going to make….good times…

[gaiakai]

Yup I'm just waiting on authorization to disclose all the parts. Production should be underway already

Do you have any info on whether or not this is going to be a limited run for the parts? (Sorry if you already mentioned this and I just missed it)

[0-60motorsports]

It's happening!!

Yup I'm just waiting on authorization to disclose all the parts. Production should be underway already

[gaiakai]

That’s great news - waiting impatiently.

It’s happening!!

[Epoustouflant]

I'm at a cross roads with respect to after market parts and this particular car. I'm tired of hobbyist car parts makers. I don't want to struggle to contact them. I don't want to struggle getting pricing. I don't want to go on a waiting list only to be told that person no longer has the time or is currently short on time. I don't want a middle man who does nothing (middle man can't, I get it) when problems arise. Get in or get out. Ted from blue bus is a guy doing it right.

That's a take I understand and respect.

It boils down to the usual supply / demand triangle: quality, availability and price.

1. If you want quality and you want it now, expect to pay more.
2. If you want quality and a lower price, expect to wait for the business to de-risk the market.
3. If you want quality and availability without paying the price, expect to get bamboozled or ignored.

The E46 M3 is particularly strange when it comes to owner's and company's profiles: the spectrum has been growing wider and wider. I think the cross-over between owner's profiles plays a major factor in what you describe.

Being both an owner / actor in this market, I occupy a funny vantage point at times. This should be a 50 slide deck, but anyways, this is my summarized 0.02$.

Ownership profiles
From having talked to a lot of owners over the years, I generalize to these groups:

1. New owners that bought in high since covid, for various reasons.
   1. They plan a complete build, or will keep it stock and bring the maintenance up to par.
   2. They ask for higher quality parts: an SGT CSL bumper, diffuser and trunk isn't cutting it.
2. "Return" owners coming back to the platform with more budget.
3. OG owners, like most of what compromises NAM3.
   1. A part think little can be improved over what was done a decade ago.
   2. A part want most of the latest and greatest things.
4. Bottom of the barrel owners that bought in at 8,000$ and it might as well be an E36 325i to them.
5. The fly-by-summer owners:
   1. They own the car for 6 months and move on. You don't see many of those online, and when you do, they're closer to 4).

The 3) group is the most polarized because it overlaps with 2) and 4) - and it's what we're seeing in this very thread. It also happens all the time on Facebook groups.

As a example, I can post a CSL carbon bumper on Facebook groups and have guys complaining about the price, while the OEM unit is now over 6,000 US, and ask for a 1,000$ fiberglass unit. Whoever ends up buying the bumper didn't bother commenting and the transaction took 5 minutes.

Business profiles
Whichever company wants to build a new, quality product at a matching price will aim at 1) and 2) while fending off a part of 3) and all of 4).

I can tell you right now that having the Genuine BMW unit and 3x CSL carbon bumper supplier on the market will lead to a strange dynamic. Pre-preg and autoclave has minimum prices that cant be worked around - even in China. Someone, somewhere, will do something funky - I bet it's someone who will depend on it the most to live.

From having talked to many companies over these same years, there's a huge gap as well - makes sense as supply aligns with demand.

1. Major corporations ala KW, Bilstein (100MM+ annum) will stick to their catalog products from a decade ago and not bother.
2. Mid range corporations like Karbonius, Turner, etc (10-20MM+ annum) are the best.
   1. They invest the most in new products to grow.
   2. They do face growth problems in production capacity; equipment, space, staff - it's difficult to grow a business.
   3. As a manufacturer, Karbonius will eventually further move to OEM contracts to stabilize growth.
3. Smaller shops (2-5MM annum) are usually pretty good, with some misses.
   1. Beisan is a great, positive example of this. They have their niche, and are amazing to deal with.
4. Hobbyists (1MM or less) are always hit or miss, you're dealing with an individual over a company.
   1. Emotions play a bigger part and there are few operational processes in place.
   2. Understanding who I'm dealing with has been most important over focusing on the product.

Ultimately, having an educated understanding of what you're getting into as an owner is what I most care about - whether you deal with me or not, as I've proven by still providing the accurate information this other guy asked for on the CSL bumper.

[nyc951]

I'm at a cross roads with respect to after market parts and this particular car. I'm tired of hobbyist car parts makers. I don't want to struggle to contact them. I don't want to struggle getting pricing. I don't want to go on a waiting list only to be told that person no longer has the time or is currently short on time. I don't want a middle man who does nothing (middle man can't, I get it) when problems arise. Get in or get out. Ted from blue bus is a guy doing it right.

I wholeheartedly agree. I’d rather pay a bit more for service in addition to quality.

[oceansize]

I'm at a cross roads with respect to after market parts and this particular car. I'm tired of hobbyist car parts makers. I don't want to struggle to contact them. I don't want to struggle getting pricing. I don't want to go on a waiting list only to be told that person no longer has the time or is currently short on time. I don't want a middle man who does nothing (middle man can't, I get it) when problems arise. Get in or get out. Ted from blue bus is a guy doing it right.

[Epoustouflant]

Posting a small link, and only after someone else had responded to me about the company is my circumventing you?

The Alsatek brand is known on this forum because I've posted about them for over a year ago. 0-60 felt it was awesome and that's where I believe toy4to discovered it - but I can't be sure, nor does it really matter.

Posting a small link, and only after someone else had responded to me about the company is my circumventing you?

I sincerely hope you can move on with your life and stop making a fool of yourself with these links to old posts that are out of context and reality. Keep post stalking though, it's entertaining me on a slow day.

Thanks 0-60 for the V-CSL pm! Looking forward to having another 46 csl clone, again.

You've chosen to path to n+1 double down at this point. As I said, I'm not here to convince you of anything, people can read your words, they have.

I'll wish you a good one.

With the hindsight of time, most of my Vorsteiner parts are literally falling apart. I've definitely gotten higher quality CF parts from other vendors.

Right.

Out of respect for Peter / VRS - I'm not outright, publicly saying my E92 CSL trunk is a Vorsteiner unit.

I bought it used as it's discontinued and I can't tell its authenticity as it was previously painted. The seller was someone I trust, who's a employee of a reputable tuner in California and he swears it was a Vorsteiner unit, but in DVWP. I don't know, and I don't care - as Alsatek will be doing a proper fitting CSL trunk for the E92 because of this.

A bit ironic with all that's been said here.