Brake Pads: PFC 08's are high adventure...anyone tried 331 332?

[Estoril]

On the topic of dragging the brakes to warm them up:

Its something I do as well. But was hesitant to recommend it toa beginner as other students around him may get confused with constant brake lights.

What I will say is that if you plan to do it then practice the left foot braking on the street before doing it on track. And tell your instructor what you plan to do. It is very effective but unless its a cold track you shouldn't be having any issues getting heat into the pfc08 pads just doing laps.

I was instructing in the same run group the days the OP was on track with that experience. Shenandoah is a track that you'll bed the pads on the first lap/1.5 laps.

(To Eacmen: I know you know this)

[mrgizmo04]

All track pads will have at least a slight increase in friction with heat. There is sometimes a "delay" after a long straight where your brakes cool down before they get back to optimal temp range as you start applying pressure. My experience with PFC08 years ago is they basically don't need bedding, and have a very consistent feel and mu from cold. That said, PFC08 are endurance pads, some folks like super high bite on initial application, just personal preferences, these pads will not provide that. They are very easy to learn on and are great performance.

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[eacmen]

I've found that bedding track pads in on the street to be a waste of time if you're driving on them to get to the track. By the time I arrive, the transfer layer seems to be completely gone from the rotors.

I do something similar to what eacmen mentioned to bed my pads in on the first session of the day. I'll also lightly left foot brake through long sweeping corners to help the pads get up to temp quicker. A combination of both these things means I can usually get the pads bedded in on the first lap, but that depends on traffic of course.

Just figured I'd put this out there since there's a bedding conversation going on.

On the topic of dragging the brakes to warm them up:

Its something I do as well. But was hesitant to recommend it toa beginner as other students around him may get confused with constant brake lights.

What I will say is that if you plan to do it then practice the left foot braking on the street before doing it on track. And tell your instructor what you plan to do. It is very effective but unless its a cold track you shouldn't be having any issues getting heat into the pfc08 pads just doing laps.

[fourmula1]

What was better? Initial bite? I didn't like the dull feel of the pagid yellows.

They are just consistent in all phases. Bite is always there, never bind, smooth release, don’t fade, last way longer.

[bigjae46]

No, unfortunately cant offer any comparison to those. I used pagid yellows for a while and these are infinitely better in my opinion.

What was better? Initial bite? I didn't like the dull feel of the pagid yellows.

[fourmula1]

Did you ever use PF01s or PF11s?

No, unfortunately cant offer any comparison to those. I used pagid yellows for a while and these are infinitely better in my opinion.

[bigjae46]

I track/race 331 and 332 and they work well for me. Stock calipers and rotors. Full aero/slicks etc.

Did you ever use PF01s or PF11s?

[fourmula1]

I track/race 331 and 332 and they work well for me. Stock calipers and rotors. Full aero/slicks etc.

[OldRanger]

PFC Europe website has a better compound comparison chart for just the endurance/sprint compounds. Their description:

• 331 is the next generation of PFC endurance material. Improved control with ABS, and gentle on discs.
• The 331 Carbon Metallic ® compound has been developed with higher initial bite than PFC’s renowned 08 endurance compound.
• The 331 has improved release, and continues to offer exceptional control and feel. It boasts low wear rate and exceptional disc conditioning.

Bimmerworld's product description: "We collaborated with PFC on this pad and it has been specifically engineered around BMW ABS systems where the torque slightly tapers back as temperature rises. Development focused on modulation and release to achieve superior braking, which is critical with an ABS car. Brake balance is shifted slightly rearward, but with fading torque at increased temperatures, this allows a driver to carry more speed to apex of a corner, and usually results in better trail braking and corner speed due to happier tires. These characteristics also benefit non-ABS cars where an eye on tire wear at peak braking will help extend tire life. The 331 is used on our pro cars typically in endurance environments (extremely long lifespan) where avoiding a pad change in the pits, as well as tire wear and tire performance over longer stints, is critical."

I wish PFC would quantify the y-axis, but I suppose that gives away competitive information

[heinzboehmer]

I've found that bedding track pads in on the street to be a waste of time if you're driving on them to get to the track. By the time I arrive, the transfer layer seems to be completely gone from the rotors.

I do something similar to what eacmen mentioned to bed my pads in on the first session of the day. I'll also lightly left foot brake through long sweeping corners to help the pads get up to temp quicker. A combination of both these things means I can usually get the pads bedded in on the first lap, but that depends on traffic of course.

Just figured I'd put this out there since there's a bedding conversation going on.

[OldRanger]

Not trying to treat you like a retard....but I have to ask. How did you bed the pads in?

To be constructive, the answer is something along these lines…here’s a link to PFC Pad Bedding: https://pfcbrakes.com/pad-bedding-procedure/. The caveat: my car is not a race car. I drive it to the track. So, I applied these concepts safely on public roads prior to track time. For the general public: none of the manufacturer-recommended bedding procedures (e.g PFC or Brembo) mention smoke as an indicator the procedure is complete.

For anyone still following hoping to hear more about the PFC 331 and 332 pads: I have noticed that the PFC website does not show the 332 as an option for the e46 M3 rear even though Bimmerworld sells them for that fitment. That’ makes me curious, I suppose these products are newer

This is a fun topic. I hope to learn more about the pad and options that work well for HPDE on stock calipers. My approach will be to stick with one manufacturer that focuses on our application/use and learn to use their products. I went with PFC because they are reputable, have a couple options for track, and made in the USA

[bigjae46]

Yes, the pads are properly bed in on the rotor. But that is an important step, so I appreciate you mentioning this.

I think I just don’t have enough heat in them. I supposed I should just go faster :-)

My son used these PFC08s and loved them on this same track in May. He has demonstrated (in other sports and this one) a much higher tolerance for late braking and confidence in turns than I have.

Not trying to treat you like a retard....but I have to ask. How did you bed the pads in? It has been a pad bedding issue every time I've encountered this complaint. Typically, I smell brakes and sometimes a little smoking after bedding the pads.

The odd thing is PFCs are generally easy to bed in. The only pad I've had issues with were Pagids.

I'm not up to date on the PF compounds but the PF11 are supposed to be like the old PF01s. The PF01s have a higher initial bite, are easier to control than an PF08, and would last a long time as long as you didn't cook them. The PF08s are more tolerant of overheating and can withstand higher temps.

The only other thing I can think of is the tires are old. The PS4S get rock hard when overheated a couple of times. Once rock hard, they will last another 100k miles with zero wear but the grip will be total crap. Usually you will notice because it will be drift city and it feels like the brakes are crap...unless you have DSC on and then it will just feel like crappy brakes.

[eacmen]

On the outlap as long as I don't have traffic behind me I will threshold (but avoid ABS!) brake more than needed at each corner. This helps warm the pads up for the first hotlap, but I don't find the pads truly up to temp until the second or third hotlap. I have brake ducts but will often cover them up on cooler days to help get heat into the brakes.

[OldRanger]

Did you bed the pads in? What you describe sounds like the pads not being bed in.

Track pads which are high temp pads work differently than lower temp or street pads. Street pads rely on pressure and friction. A track pad relies on heat, pressure and some adhesion. High temp compounds actually stick to the rotor so it is absolutely critical to bed in the pads.
.

Yes, the pads are properly bed in on the rotor. But that is an important step, so I appreciate you mentioning this.

I think I just don’t have enough heat in them. I supposed I should just go faster :-)

My son used these PFC08s and loved them on this same track in May. He has demonstrated (in other sports and this one) a much higher tolerance for late braking and confidence in turns than I have.

[bigjae46]

Did you bed the pads in? What you describe sounds like the pads not being bed in.

Track pads which are high temp pads work differently than lower temp or street pads. Street pads rely on pressure and friction. A track pad relies on heat, pressure and some adhesion. High temp compounds actually stick to the rotor so it is absolutely critical to bed in the pads.

The goal of bedding the pads in is to get the pads hot enough to transfer a layer of pad material onto the rotor to promote high temp adhesion with the pad.

You lose bite and stippling power when the pads are not bed in and significantly increase wear on the pads and rotors.