Brake Pads: PFC 08's are high adventure...anyone tried 331 332?

[OldRanger]

Still using the 331/332. They work flawlessly.

They don’t seem to last as long as the PFC08. Here is a helpful link:

https://pfc.parts/motorsports/pad-compounds/endurance-comparison/

[tdott]

any updates on 331/332 combo compared to 08s?

I hear some like them, some like the 08s better. Just wanted to gather some more feedback, are wear rates about the same?

[Nate047]

Not trying to thread jack but I have a set of brand new never used 331/332 for our cars for sale if anyone wants them

[fourmula1]

I now have PFC 331/332 and used them for a day on track (Summit Point Shenandoah - lots of turns). Bottom line - I prefer them over the PFC 08. The initial bite is stronger, and in high speed braking (e.g. from 115+ down to 50), the friction feels steady vs. the increasing rate on the 08. The transition to ‘trail’ braking is predictable.

Not bashing the PFC 08. They were predictable, just not the characteristics I want.

Nice! Thanks for sharing your feedback. The 331/332 have been great for me.

[OldRanger]

I now have PFC 331/332 and used them for a day on track (Summit Point Shenandoah - lots of turns). Bottom line - I prefer them over the PFC 08. The initial bite is stronger, and in high speed braking (e.g. from 115+ down to 50), the friction feels steady vs. the increasing rate on the 08. The transition to ‘trail’ braking is predictable.

Not bashing the PFC 08. They were predictable, just not the characteristics I want.

[OldRanger]

Not to hijack op's thread but gutted track car with stiff rear springs and aero and BBK front and rear. Downhill braking causing ABS to freak out and go into ice mode.

No worries! I like the evolution of this thread regardless of where it goes. ABS is difficult to understand, it’s like a black box. Well, to be more accurate, on an E46 it’s like a 20-year-old black box. No AI, no machine learning, and maybe some false assumptions once we start changing pads and rotors.

Caveat: as long as we don’t drift into installing race ABS, I think we’re on point!

[eacmen]

There needs to be a reason for you to run a split mu pad setup. It affects bias and limit handling. For a car that dives a lot (soft front end) and xfers a lot of weight forward, you might want to run more mu in front, for a car that has rear wing and stiffly sprung front where the car stays level on brakes you might want more rear mu since you have downforce and more grip there, for a stiffly sprung car but that has rear gutted (weight distribution shifted forward) you might want more front mu. For a 50/50 weight distributed car but that sees a lot of hard downhill braking sections you might want to run less rear mu. For an underpowered front axle bbk (like 996), you can run more front mu. It depends what setup you have and what problems you are solving.

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Not to hijack op's thread but gutted track car with stiff rear springs and aero and BBK front and rear. Downhill braking causing ABS to freak out and go into ice mode. Damper and adding wing didn't help. First pass is replacing wheel speed sensors even though there are no codes, they are the original sensors. If that doesn't work then I'll try the lower my pads in the rear.

[mrgizmo04]

There needs to be a reason for you to run a split mu pad setup. It affects bias and limit handling. For a car that dives a lot (soft front end) and xfers a lot of weight forward, you might want to run more mu in front, for a car that has rear wing and stiffly sprung front where the car stays level on brakes you might want more rear mu since you have downforce and more grip there, for a stiffly sprung car but that has rear gutted (weight distribution shifted forward) you might want more front mu. For a 50/50 weight distributed car but that sees a lot of hard downhill braking sections you might want to run less rear mu. For an underpowered front axle bbk (like 996), you can run more front mu. It depends what setup you have and what problems you are solving. If you are locking up tires, maybe the answer is not to back off pad mu but to get grippier tires, or adjust your technique and brake earlier and smoother to not upset the car when entering the turn not overbraking and carrying more min speed through the turn.

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[eacmen]

I wish PFC made the 332 compound for rear BBK. I'm currently looking for a less aggressive rear pad and actually going to try using the PFC Z sport/street pad in the rear to see if ABS is happier.

[OldRanger]

I'd assume your delay function is also compounded by stock(? not sure if I saw) calipers which deflect a lot and also your tires. Inside shoulder blocks on ps4s wear like iron and are a much harder compound than the exterior shoulder where softer rubber is for cornering grip. I assume there is some tread deflection and squirm on ps4s until they deflect enough to grip and slow you down. With a lot of tread depth and with track alignment (assuming around 2.5 degrees up front) you would struggle. I think it is time you look at tires. Ps4s fall off after about 2 laps. You keep looking for more and more aggressive pad, but I think tires are your limiting factor to an extent. Especially supportive of the theory since you are hitting ABS seems like rather frequently, and pulsating pedal is also not helping enjoying the experience and modulation.

Correct: stock calipers and the OEM ZCP drilled rotors. I rebuilt the seals, so I think they are working optimally and probably sufficient for low/intermediate driving pace.
Correct: front camber is -3.1, total toe is +.07

What interests me about the 331/332 pad mix (conceptually) is the rear 332 compound is actually less aggressive (lower friction) than the 08. In my mind that just seems to be a good idea, especially with ABS. Someone has real data on this. Presumably Bimmerworld and PFC, and endurance race teams.

We're having fun.

[mrgizmo04]

I'd assume your delay function is also compounded by stock(? not sure if I saw) calipers which deflect a lot and also your tires. Inside shoulder blocks on ps4s wear like iron and are a much harder compound than the exterior shoulder where softer rubber is for cornering grip. I assume there is some tread deflection and squirm on ps4s until they deflect enough to grip and slow you down. With a lot of tread depth and with track alignment (assuming around 2.5 degrees up front) you would struggle. I think it is time you look at tires. Ps4s fall off after about 2 laps. You keep looking for more and more aggressive pad, but I think tires are your limiting factor to an extent. Especially supportive of the theory since you are hitting ABS seems like rather frequently, and pulsating pedal is also not helping enjoying the experience and modulation.

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[OldRanger]

Update: my son had a couple track days with the car and didn’t complain about this aspect of braking. He and his instructor only mentioned being at the limits of the tires (4 month old PS4S with 20 HPDE sessions on them and lots of tread depth.)

My conclusion from studying the available information is that there’s probably opportunity to improve upon a setup that uses the PFC08 for both front and rear on an ABS equipped car. I’ll experiment in the real world after these pads wear out. Presuming that Performance Friction is committed to product improvements, the PFC 331/332 would incorporate another 10 years or so of R&D. I’m in on that, and plan to try those next. #madeintheusa

[heinzboehmer]

On the topic of dragging the brakes to warm them up:

Its something I do as well. But was hesitant to recommend it toa beginner as other students around him may get confused with constant brake lights.

Yes that's a good point. Should have added that disclaimer to my post.

What I will say is that if you plan to do it then practice the left foot braking on the street before doing it on track. And tell your instructor what you plan to do. It is very effective but unless its a cold track you shouldn't be having any issues getting heat into the pfc08 pads just doing laps.

Totally agreed. The daily is an auto and I left foot brake on that thing practically everywhere I go. Great practice for the track

[Estoril]

On the topic of dragging the brakes to warm them up:

Its something I do as well. But was hesitant to recommend it toa beginner as other students around him may get confused with constant brake lights.

What I will say is that if you plan to do it then practice the left foot braking on the street before doing it on track. And tell your instructor what you plan to do. It is very effective but unless its a cold track you shouldn't be having any issues getting heat into the pfc08 pads just doing laps.

I was instructing in the same run group the days the OP was on track with that experience. Shenandoah is a track that you'll bed the pads on the first lap/1.5 laps.

(To Eacmen: I know you know this)

[mrgizmo04]

All track pads will have at least a slight increase in friction with heat. There is sometimes a "delay" after a long straight where your brakes cool down before they get back to optimal temp range as you start applying pressure. My experience with PFC08 years ago is they basically don't need bedding, and have a very consistent feel and mu from cold. That said, PFC08 are endurance pads, some folks like super high bite on initial application, just personal preferences, these pads will not provide that. They are very easy to learn on and are great performance.

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