SMG relay tamper

[E46m3zcp]

I found this out when swapping my salmon relay the other day. This doesn't look like something a factory would do! (probably one of the previous owners)

I'm clueless as to what kind of trouble or modification would make someone tamper with the 12V signal wire for the SMG pump relay.

Any ideas? The wire going to terminal 30 on the relay is red with a white line, and the other one coming from the harness is red. I'd be curious to know how it's set up from the factory (in your cars)


Thanks

[E46m3zcp]

Also on a slightly different topic, here is a photo of the internals of the salmon relay, where we can see some wear on the electrode.

[chalaka]

I found this out when swapping my salmon relay the other day. This doesn't look like something a factory would do! (probably one of the previous owners)

I'm clueless as to what kind of trouble or modification would make someone tamper with the 12V signal wire for the SMG pump relay.

Any ideas? The wire going to terminal 30 on the relay is red with a white line, and the other one coming from the harness is red. I'd be curious to know how it's set up from the factory (in your cars)


Thanks

was this due to a relay wiring recall before?

i can't remember how i did mine ..but read a recall like back in 2008 ..i switched some wiring for the relay myself as well

[E46m3zcp]

was this due to a relay wiring recall before?

i can't remember how i did mine ..but read a recall like back in 2008 ..i switched some wiring for the relay myself as well

Interesting, I never heard about this recall. So you think the dealership would have crimped this wire like this? The crip looks too large for the wire gauge, it has no heat-shrink wrap over it, and the whole thing was wrapped in electric tape... That's odd.


This is probably what you're referring to: https://www.e46fanatics.com/threads/...th-smg.173220/

Here, I found the service bulletin: https://bmwrepairguide.com/sib/230104.pdf

Looks like whoever did this on my car might have been missing the tool so they just cut and crimped the wires ... lol ... but if this was the case why would there be a red wire going in terminal 30?... it should be the old yellow one.

[sapote]

Any ideas? The wire going to terminal 30 on the relay is red with a white line, and the other one coming from the harness is red. I'd be curious to know how it's set up from the factory (in your cars)

Red wire should be pin6 of the connector, which is the 12v output to drive the motor. So the added wire is for backup in case the relay is bad, then one can run the pump by applying 12v to the added wire.
I first thought someone add the secrete switch to disable the relay for anti-theft .

[sapote]

Also on a slightly different topic, here is a photo of the internals of the salmon relay, where we can see some wear on the electrode.

Wear at point A?

[sapote]

E46m3zcp, it looks like you had destroyed the old relay -- do you still have the bottom part with all the pins/legs intact? I want to have the part to convert it to a semiconductor relay lifetime guarantee.

[E46m3zcp]

Sapote, responding to your messages in order:

First: I don't follow. There is no secret switch. All I see is there is a short red/white piece of wire coming out of terminal 30 on the relay, which is (quite badly) crimped to the red wire (sorry for the lack of surrounding context in these photos I posted).
So the red/white wire is basically just an extension of the red wire going to pin 30. I am wondering why would someone do this... What would make someone have to "fix" the connection to terminal 30 of the relay this way? How can this break and become an issue? Based on this I will know if I should investigate this situation further or just leave it alone.

Second: A and B are the two terminals that make contact when the relay is assembled (A touches B -> current flows). I think the current flows from B (connected to terminal 30 - the red wire) to A (connected to terminal 87 - a red/yellow wire going to the pump motor).
I think the wear on terminal B is rather obvious (with some carbon deposits around and the top layer of metal discoloured). I'm not sure about A as I can't see very well, probably worn, too.

People say "relays stick" but this relay's mechanical parts were moving fine. Nothing literally "sticking" or anything like that. My gut feeling is that the terminals get damaged by heat from arcing and current, as well as mechanical shocks over time and the current stops flowing.



Third: The relay is still relatively intact. I removed the housing by unclipping it (the plastic housing got cracked in the process) and detached the spring that puts tension to make A and B spread apart, then folded the terminal out of its slot. I was able to reassemble it after.
I mean, the relay is most probably no longer functional! But it's a good learning instrument.

[sapote]

Sapote, responding to your messages in order:

First: I don't follow. There is no secret switch. All I see is there is a short red/white piece of wire coming out of terminal 30 on the relay, which is (quite badly) crimped to the red wire (sorry for the lack of surrounding context in these photos I posted).
So the red/white wire is basically just an extension of the red wire going to pin 30. I am wondering why would someone do this... What would make someone have to "fix" the connection to terminal 30 of the relay this way? How can this break and become an issue? Based on this I will know if I should investigate this situation further or just leave it alone.

Second: A and B are the two terminals that make contact when the relay is assembled (A touches B -> current flows). I think the current flows from B (connected to terminal 30 - the red wire) to A (connected to terminal 87 - a red/yellow wire going to the pump motor).
I think the wear on terminal B is rather obvious (with some carbon deposits around and the top layer of metal discoloured). I'm not sure about A as I can't see very well, probably worn, too.

People say "relays stick" but this relay's mechanical parts were moving fine. Nothing literally "sticking" or anything like that. My gut feeling is that the terminals get damaged by heat from arcing and current, as well as mechanical shocks over time and the current stops flowing.



Third: The relay is still relatively intact. I removed the housing by unclipping it (the plastic housing got cracked in the process) and detached the spring that puts tension to make A and B spread apart, then folded the terminal out of its slot. I was able to reassemble it after.
I mean, the relay is most probably no longer functional! But it's a good learning instrument.

1. If the added red/white wire is a short piece then I think someone added during trouble a not running pump: they tried to bypass the relay (good or bad) and see if the pump running with 12v apllied to the added wires.
2. Based on the schematic that I posted, the current flows from RT/GE (red/yellpw) to RT (red), so current acually flow from terminal A to B which is connected to the added wire. Makes sensen?
3. If you don't plan to use this old relay, can I have it to build the solid state relay experiment?

[E46m3zcp]

1. If the added red/white wire is a short piece then I think someone added during trouble a not running pump: they tried to bypass the relay (good or bad) and see if the pump running with 12v apllied to the added wires.
2. Based on the schematic that I posted, the current flows from RT/GE (red/yellpw) to RT (red), so current acually flow from terminal A to B which is connected to the added wire. Makes sensen?
3. If you don't plan to use this old relay, can I have it to build the solid state relay experiment?

1. and 2. make sense. It puzzles me that someone who is able to release the relay’s pins and so cleanly crimp a new wire in there would on the other hand make that ugly yellow crimp to connect back the two wires.. Your guess is the one that makes the most sense thought

3. No, I don't plan on using. Yes, you can have it... but they're relatively cheap.

[George Hill]

That or someone spliced in to run angel eyes or some other accessory, pretty common from what I've seen.

[sapote]

That or someone spliced in to run angel eyes or some other accessory, pretty common from what I've seen.

George, it was connected to the switched side of the relay, not the constant 12v supply side.

[George Hill]

RT/WS is generally switched DME power so a lot of the online guides for Halo wiring says to tap into that, ppl just blindly will do stuff in that manner without double checking. I saw his spliced RT/WS wire and thought that is what was going on.

But now that I read it closer someone spliced a RT/WS wire to the RT wire on his harness and connected it to the SMG relay. I would probably say it has something to do with the bulletin as mentioned above. When I was at the dealer we were performing the bulletin and so many techs were tearing up the terminals and relay block the policy changed to only the shop foreman was to complete the modification. Very possible someone butchered it and then they just scabbed in a similar wire from a junk harness especially considering the beautiful crimp job.

If you want to fix it correctly remind me tomorrow and I'll see if I have that wire in my scrap bin (from De-SMGing harnesses), I'll send it to you to replace your RT/WS pig tail.

[sapote]

On the Service Bulleting of swapping the wires on the relay contact pins, it makes no sense to me of how this prevents/improves the relay. Motor current flows from one contact to the other, and swapping the current flow direction wouldn't change anything.

[E46m3zcp]

I'm with you sapote... I can't make sense of it. But the bulletin is clear lol! Must be these same engineers who decided to use a relay that blew up quicker than the fuse. And they ordered a buncha clock-punching monkeys to do this fix, which resulted in broken wires and ugly crimps. Thread closed, JK.