Current price of M3

[simonnim]

Mk60 started MY 8/2002 if I recall. But, when does mss54hp start?

[01SG]

Fair enough but let’s be honest - all LCIs have MK60, newer style rod bearings, and all the cosmetic updates. Some also have things like the updated DME capable of running a CSL intake, newer version of LCM, v2 LSD, etc. Even the subframe was improved on the later years. There are hundreds of little things that were improved…

Most members of this forum would place quite a bit of value on that package as a whole. Car collectors who don’t know the e46 m3 by heart or are looking for a low mile garage queen? Not so much..

Rod bearings don't matter, all will need to be replaced. Very few cars have the v2 LSD as far as I know. It was only implemented in the last year or two of production. Subframe improvement is nonsense, they will all crack up. Saying hundreds of little things were improved is simply false.

Agreed MK60 is a big upgrade for track use. I don't think it matters at all on the road. I always drive with traction control off anyway. The car is a pussycat without TC, just like the e36. Naturally, the later, updated model is worth more than the early model, but lets not overstate the differences. A 2006 with the v2 LSD and MK60 would be a cherry though.

[PetrolM3]

Rod bearings don't matter, all will need to be replaced. Very few cars have the v2 LSD as far as I know. It was only implemented in the last year or two of production. Subframe improvement is nonsense, they will all crack up. Saying hundreds of little things were improved is simply false.

Agreed MK60 is a big upgrade for track use. I don't think it matters at all on the road. I always drive with traction control off anyway. The car is a pussycat without TC, just like the e36. Naturally, the later, updated model is worth more than the early model, but let’s not overstate the differences. A 2006 with the v2 LSD and MK60 would be a cherry though.

I guess that’s your opinion but the fact is that the car was improved in many ways from 01 to 06. I’m on my phone and it’s hard to type so I’ll quote Obi from a different thread:

It's really the cumulation of hundreds of tiny things. If you look at any part on realoem, you'll most likely see it went through multiple revisions/improvements by the end of production. Big, hugely impactful changes exist (like MK60 DSC, which I would consider a baseline requirement for any car I bought), but also small things like the improved mesh screen on the oil pump pickup tube... or oil return line going from rubber to metal... or bi xenons vs single xenons... or clusters that can display M track mode vs those that can't... or LCMs that can have ripple blink turn signals vs those than can't... or coming with a strut tower brace vs not. Etc. Almost every aspect of the car was improved over the production run, some things significantly.

For me, the inflection point of "want to own" vs "wait" would be the MK60. But, all else equal, the later the car was made, the better.

[01SG]

I'm still not seeing hundreds of upgrades. I said the later car is better and worth more, but to act like the early car is so much worse is pretty ridiculous. Most of those differences are rather negligible. The MK60 and rarely used LSD are by far and away the major upgrades, and really the only ones you would feel while driving.

[James31]

Again a lot of what petrolm3 is talking about isn’t lci specific. Strut bars and lcm are just some examples of what also came on some pre lci models. Just upgrades through the years. Many pre lci’s came with the updates you mention. Obioban was also stating the updates from year to year. Not lci-pre lci.
I’ve got a 05 and a 02. No difference to me for daily driving as well as spirited driving. But I also don’t track the car so maybe that’s where you would notice the difference.

Also can you point me in the direction of where I can find information on updated subframe and bearings for Kate models? Would like to read up on it.

[PetrolM3]

Again a lot of what petrolm3 is talking about isn’t lci specific. Strut bars and lcm are just some examples of what also came on some pre lci models. Just upgrades through the years. Many pre lci’s came with the updates you mention. Obioban was also stating the updates from year to year. Not lci-pre lci.
I’ve got a 05 and a 02. No difference to me for daily driving as well as spirited driving. But I also don’t track the car so maybe that’s where you would notice the difference.

Also can you point me in the direction of where I can find information on updated subframe and bearings for Kate models? Would like to read up on it.

actually very few rather than ‘many’ pre-lci cars came with the majority of these updates whereas many lci cars do. You are of opinion that lci is not a big deal and that’s fine.. if you care to find out more about the changes including subframe improvements, feel free to search, it’s all been shared on here.. no hard feelings

[01SG]

From CMP: "There are common misconceptions that lead people to believe the issue isn’t universal to all E46’s such as convertibles having thicker floors, some models having additional or differently designed structures or that it only occurs in the earlier manufactured models not the later face-lift models.
Unfortunately, all of the above is technically incorrect."

https://cmpautoengineering.com/pages/part-1-will-my-e46-subframe-crack-how-will-i-know

Also, the only change in the rod bearings was performed on virtually every car after the early failures. The early models were recalled and updated. Sure, it's better to have an unopened, low mileage, post-update car. But they will still need to be changed eventually if it's driven.

[PetrolM3]

From CMP: "There are common misconceptions that lead people to believe the issue isn’t universal to all E46’s such as convertibles having thicker floors, some models having additional or differently designed structures or that it only occurs in the earlier manufactured models not the later face-lift models.
Unfortunately, all of the above is technically incorrect."

https://cmpautoengineering.com/pages/part-1-will-my-e46-subframe-crack-how-will-i-know

Also, the only change in the rod bearings was performed on virtually every car after the early failures. The early models were recalled and updated. Sure, it's better to have an unopened, low mileage, post-update car. But they will still need to be changed eventually if it's driven.

Obviously CMP will want to sell a kit to anyone and everyone. I'm by no means encouraging 04-06 owners not to address the subframe issue but there's very clear evidence that the RACP had been updated throughout the years - look up reddish vides. Those small changes are not enough for an abused car but might just be enough for collector low-mile cars to avoid having to butcher their cars with an invasive and IMO ugly solution such as CMP.

As for the rod bearing update - you just said it yourself, it's better to have a post-update car which all LCIs are. Less than half pre-LCI cars are too, so then why not just stick to LCIs and not worry about it? I'm sure there's a good reason BMW changed the bolt type - they must be improved.

I'm honestly not shitting on pre-LCI cars, I'd buy and drive one at the right price. But to say there's little difference in price/value for most enthusiasts is wrong. I would (and did) pay 25% more for an LCI car all else being equal. Hagerty valuations are proof.

[fattycharged]

My intro to e46 M3 ownership was with a Vf kit, so I couldn't ever use DSC, not sure why I would want the help now.


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[repoman89]

I'm ready to let mine go too this spring after ten years of ownership. Think I'm just going to put it on BAT and let the market tell me what it's worth. Back to the simple one car life with my E39 M5.

[Nate047]

The later the build date the better. I have a really early ‘01 and in hindsight, I really wish I had just bought a different car. I am dreading the MK60 retrofit I have planned. But that ship has sailed, I’m too deep into the car to turn back now. But I would for sure not recommend an early MK20 car to anyone who is buying in for the first time. By contrast, I have a very late ‘99 E36 M3 with rare colors and zero options, it’s amazing. BTW someone said E36 M3s don’t have DSC which is not totally correct, they have a really shitty 3-channel ABS and a rudimentary DSC, at least the ‘96+ cars do. Best to just turn it off and try to threshold brake. Being able to really get into ABS is something the MK60 cars allow you to do, which will lead to better laps. Highly doubt it would be a big factor on the streets, but still.

[discoelk]

MK60 is way better on track. Exploring either ABS system regularly on the street is super dangerous IMO.

If you're not gonna track the car, most people are best buying the nicest car they can in a color they like and not getting hung up on year. All of them are old cars now.

[simonnim]

I'm ready to let mine go too this spring after ten years of ownership. Think I'm just going to put it on BAT and let the market tell me what it's worth. Back to the simple one car life with my E39 M5.

I've debated this decision too, id honestly just 0 out after selling after doing so many things to it. But worth the memories.

[fattycharged]

The later the build date the better. I have a really early ‘01 and in hindsight, I really wish I had just bought a different car. I am dreading the MK60 retrofit I have planned. But that ship has sailed, I’m too deep into the car to turn back now. But I would for sure not recommend an early MK20 car to anyone who is buying in for the first time. By contrast, I have a very late ‘99 E36 M3 with rare colors and zero options, it’s amazing. BTW someone said E36 M3s don’t have DSC which is not totally correct, they have a really shitty 3-channel ABS and a rudimentary DSC, at least the ‘96+ cars do. Best to just turn it off and try to threshold brake. Being able to really get into ABS is something the MK60 cars allow you to do, which will lead to better laps. Highly doubt it would be a big factor on the streets, but still.

What I meant by "no dsc" is that I have the ASC deleted