Prototype Apex Wheels

[usdmej]

Srs question... why do you think Apex wheels are half the price of other forged wheels? Where are they saving the money?

APEX has never raced F1, they also haven't created an iconic wheel design, 2 things that allows BBS and RAYS to add a cachet tax that we gladly pay whenever we buy their wheels

[Bry5on]

Srs question... why do you think Apex wheels are half the price of other forged wheels? Where are they saving the money?

They’re were pretty open about this on their website at some point. They have custom forge dies (they don’t in-house forge, as far as I know) that reduce the overall material being forged (and therefore removed), which means the time on the CNC is reduced. For a medium sized forged part like this, time on the CNC plus the number/complexity of post-processing steps is likely to drive the overall cost. I’d venture that the forging part is generally not the expensive part at the volumes they’re doing. I’ve done a few purchased forgings + in-house post machining operations on six axis VTL/VTMs that are the ideal machines to manufacture CNC forged wheels. Your experience might differ, but that’s mine. I’d bet they also use some lower cost (location, China?) suppliers and also save money by not going for things like TUV certification.

Material properties are likely to be similar to any other wheel manufacturer and although BBS does seem to have some proprietary alloy, I’d wager that it’s likely a variant or close cousin of 6061-T6. None of these manufacturers seem to advertise a 7000 or 2000 series aluminum alloy, which would be the likely ways to achieve higher strength at a cost of machining time. I could be wrong, but I’d be surprised if someone made a 7xxx wheel and didn’t advertise the shit out of that.

Getting reliable material properties out of China (assuming that’s the raw material source) can be a challenge, but is not impossible. I lived through this while attempting to bring up parts of body panel stamping and assembly lines in China. Most other countries have more reliable alloys/certs which wouldn’t be of concern.

Lastly, and unrelated to the question, I’m happy to support a US entrepreneur that also happens to have the best warranty program in the business. No affiliation with anyone at Apex, but I applaud what they’ve built as a business. I would prefer if they did more domestic sourcing, but that would probably price them out of the market sadly.

[simonnim]

Well a 2000 series aluminum alloy centrifuge spindle costs around 10-15k machined out of a solid aluminum block. I'd hate to see how much a wheel would cost.

[oceansize]

Apex list their certification information here, and I'm good with VIA if what they write is correct.

https://apexwheels.com/blog/technical-discussion/are-your-wheels-really-via

Bottom line is their flow formed are VIA tested.

Their forged are still waiting for VIA testing and currently the only tests they have passed is via these guys https://www.wheeltest.com/


Here is the interesting bit from APEX about Titan 7:

As of the date this article was posted (2019), Titan 7 advertises that their wheels are “durability tested according to DOT / SAE and JWL / VIA standards” and BimmerWorld claims their wheels are “tested above JWL standards and VIA certified”. Both companies have the VIA logo machined directly into their wheels even though they haven’t been tested or registered by the VIA. We’ve been monitoring the database, and their wheels have never shown up despite the release of numerous wheel fitments over the past few years. Even if Titan 7 applied to register all of its wheels today, the VIA would reject some of them. We’ve confirmed that not all of Titan 7’s fitments meet the minimum JWL requirements, which is a prerequisite of the VIA approval. You can read more about that in our write-up on JWL testing.

[Gt4]

BBS had also made crappy wheels even if they are TUV. OEM ZCP on our cars aren’t the strongest wheels. Or style 197…

[9kracing]

You can pretty much count the wheel forges on one hand.

Rays, BBS, Taneisya, BC Forged, and APP. And now there's a "new" forge in China, and nobody knows where Desmond's old Russian forge went... you do the math.



Look, there's nothing wrong with Apex from a manufacturing aspect, and in fact as posted above, they're a lot better than many companies in a lot of ways. Just know what you're getting, and why a wheel made by somebody like Volk costs twice as much.

[Bry5on]

You can pretty much count the wheel forges on one hand.

Rays, BBS, Taneisya, BC Forged, and APP. And now there's a "new" forge in China, and nobody knows where Desmond's old Russian forge went... you do the math.



Look, there's nothing wrong with Apex from a manufacturing aspect, and in fact as posted above, they're a lot better than many companies in a lot of ways. Just know what you're getting, and why a wheel made by somebody like Volk costs twice as much.

Is there something special about a wheel forge that makes it different from a regular forging press? I’ve done several forgings, up to several feet in diameter, but never wheels. I guess I didn’t expect there to be a fundamental difference between a traditional forging press and one used to make wheel blanks.

[kaiv]

BBS had also made crappy wheels even if they are TUV. OEM ZCP on our cars aren’t the strongest wheels. Or style 197…

Just for the record as I suspect not everyone knows this but BBS Germany and BBS Japan are actually two entirely separate and independent entities. BBS Germany only manufactures cast wheels (such as the Style 163) and has history with making less than stellar wheels (we'll remember plenty of cracked RX, RK, ZCP, and relatively heavy wheels like the CH or their current line up). BBS Japan on the other hand only manufactures forged wheels and has not a single bad product.

Back in the day when BBS Germany -the original company- was looking into forging technology, they partenered with a Japanese company called Washi Beam which eventually got the naming rights to all forged BBS and became BBS Japan. BBS Germany is a customer of BBS Japan which supplies them with forged wheels (Eg: LM) and not the other way around. BBS Germany has also filed for bankrupcy a couple times before being taken over by KW automotive.

To complicate matters even further, BBS Motorsport which operates out of Germany is also entirely separate from BBS Germany but owned by BBS Japan.

Then you have resellers like BBS USA who manufacture nothing but sell all 3.

TLDR: BBS Germany = cast, nay; BBS Japan = forged, yay.

[jet_dogg]

^this du knows

M3 fitment of that derivative wheel isn't going to look anything like that pic and the rays wheel is optically superior.

[CSL_DNA]

Same wheels?

[Tbonem3]

Same Chinese supplier. Interesting timing for these and for the volk e88 reps as well.

Apex's cute story seemingly b.s.

[Bry5on]

Same Chinese supplier. Interesting timing for these and for the volk e88 reps as well.

Apex's cute story seemingly b.s.

Certainly looks like someone is copying someone, very suspect. How’d you find out which supplier they’re each using to make that statement above? I can’t seem to find that sort of info.

[fattycharged]

Well, this all makes my decision much easier. 🇯🇵


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jhatch]

Track Spec wheels aren't available yet and they just say pre order will be open soon. The photos look like just a render not an actual wheel.

It does look like the exact same wheel though, spokes are identical, unlike the volks which are slightly different although the same general design.

[9kracing]

Apex's cute story seemingly b.s.

Was there really ever any question as to which forge was making Apex's wheels?

I think they're probably still getting their wheels certified, but they're coming off the same press that Titan and everyone else is using.