S54 Vanos Help

[maupineda]

The Beisan disks work reliably and are cost-effective, whereas VAC is a terrible company which has screwed many members of this forum. Please stop shilling their products in every VANOS thread.

Chill, people come here for advise from others that have experience with the topic, and that is what is being offered here. I always speak for what I do on my own car with my own money, their hub just works for me. and by the way, is the only one product they sell I have ever used, so your comment is completely inaccurate.

Lastly, I wish I found data driven recommendations when I did my VANOS "fixes", that would have saved me 1k's in unnecessary parts replacements, so I do for others what I would like for myself.

[maupineda]

Raj was great and infact refunded all money spent and sent me a re-drilled BMW disc, it wasn't fun to do the job twice but shit happens.

As Slideways said, and as I forgot, they do not make these aftermarket discs anymore so that worry is over.

Same for me. Raj personally wrote me letting me know he was refunding me and apologized for the issues, even when I did not ask for any of it.

[Cubieman]

I liked this setup.

[Slideways]

Thanks, I jiggled the exhaust splined hub & got it the cam to retard more To the guy guy w/ the comment about aftermarket timing bridge (I knew it was coming - probably one of the 1st things I wrote - ), I ordered a BMW bridge, it came damaged, a week to get a new one - I got the aftermarket one overnight & am going to compare it to the BMW one & return it if it’s not good. But YES I am using a BMW one before buttoning anything up & I have a redrilled BMW disc from Besian. So far the aftermarket cam tools seem fine, at least when I compare the top each other (setter vs checker) - setter is more “accurate” it seems. Whole set was $65 - if it matches the results from BMW one I don’t see anything wrong with it

I hear you about internet hype. I’m totally with you on that - I think replacing rod bearings w/ good oil analysis is a waste of time & money. I don’t (generally) replace parts unless they are broken. I don’t believe most of these aftermarket “race”, “upgraded”, or “performance parts” are no where near as good as OE or OEM. I think w/ vanos there is a known issue w/ the tabs & a known fix & it’s a rare exception. I have to laugh every time I see someone “bullet proofing” this or that on a vehicle spending thousands of dollars replacing perfectly good OE parts.

The vanos hub is the one thing that got me. Besides the fix of multiple known issues (tabs, bolts, chain guide) I had an oil leak both at the vanos gasket & the oil feed line. For the last 3 years or so, underside plastic tray has been wet from an oil leak, not enough to leak on the ground, but enough to collect sludge. I tracked it down to CPV & Vanos stuff.


I don’t have INPA, as I don’t have a windows laptop & didn’t really want to buy one for this one thing, I have no interest in coding anything & the Foxwell scanner is painfully slow & awkward, but works for what I need it to do.

I realize many people successfully have done this w/o torturing bolts, but all the 10mm crows foot I’ve seen are 3/8” drive & IMHO you can’t accurately torque 14nm with a 3/8” drive torque wrench w/ a 3/8” to 1/4” adapter & a crows foot. This is not because of the crows foot, but mainly because 14nm falls way low on the scale of what an average 3/8” torque wrench is rated at & your average torque wrench is innacurate near the lower & upper limits of its acceptable torque value.

Just out of curiosity it tested this w/ a 1/4” & 3/8” drive torque wrench on a 14mm bolt @ 14nm. Where they clicked wasn’t even close. Granite, I’m using cheapo Harbor Freight torque wrenches, but they have served me well in the past. I’m already in the process & I think I’ve decided to go on with steps that require re-timing the engine - mainly because I wanna replace the plastic chain tensioner with the beefy Besian on I got & because I’ve spent soooo much time researching this I think I’d feel like a puss if I didn’t do it at this point.

The cheapo HF 1/4" is surprisingly accurate as I compared it to a 1/4" Snap-on. You want a 1/4" torque wrench for 14nm. And there should be no issue with a crows foot, just torque in the right orientation.

I would 100% do the oil pump disc. kaiv has so many souvenir exhaust hub tabs to show that it is not worth the risk.

[sapote]

I realize many people successfully have done this w/o torturing bolts, but all the 10mm crows foot I’ve seen are 3/8” drive & IMHO you can’t accurately torque 14nm with a 3/8” drive torque wrench w/ a 3/8” to 1/4” adapter & a crows foot. This is not because of the crows foot, but mainly because 14nm falls way low on the scale of what an average 3/8” torque wrench is rated at & your average torque wrench is innacurate near the lower & upper limits of its acceptable torque value.

I used the normal 10mm socket and torque wrench for tightening the vanos hub: remove the vanos off the head and torque the bolts.

[Savageblunder]

if you want an honest advise... leave the VANOS alone! do not buy on the internet hype of a ticking bomb, it just IS NOT. You car already has the latest fasteners, the OE seals in the unit last very long, and if you really want to avoid future issues, just re-drill the disc, this is easy, but requires someone you can trust to do a precise job. I personally don't trust anybody, so I do all my work. if it was me, I would just buy a VAC hub with the larger tabs.

To answer your questions, you need to put more of your might on the 24mm wrench as it is hydraulically set in position, so you need to remove the solenoid body, rock the wrench back and forth to spill out the oil left in the system, this will eventually allow you to fully retard the cams and assess the timing. You can also read with INPA you adaptation, that will tell you any deviation from 0, which ALL cars have, even after a perfect timing job! so DO NOT sweat it.

Before ANY VANOS job one must...

Do pressure test
Do VANOS test with INPA/ ISAT / DIS (Z4M works with ALL these - yes, even INPA)

And only if any of the above does not meet spec, then fix. otherwise, find yourself something else to fix.

Thanks, I jiggled the exhaust splined hub & got it the cam to retard more To the guy guy w/ the comment about aftermarket timing bridge (I knew it was coming - probably one of the 1st things I wrote - ), I ordered a BMW bridge, it came damaged, a week to get a new one - I got the aftermarket one overnight & am going to compare it to the BMW one & return it if it’s not good. But YES I am using a BMW one before buttoning anything up & I have a redrilled BMW disc from Besian. So far the aftermarket cam tools seem fine, at least when I compare the top each other (setter vs checker) - setter is more “accurate” it seems. Whole set was $65 - if it matches the results from BMW one I don’t see anything wrong with it

I hear you about internet hype. I’m totally with you on that - I think replacing rod bearings w/ good oil analysis is a waste of time & money. I don’t (generally) replace parts unless they are broken. I don’t believe most of these aftermarket “race”, “upgraded”, or “performance parts” are no where near as good as OE or OEM. I think w/ vanos there is a known issue w/ the tabs & a known fix & it’s a rare exception. I have to laugh every time I see someone “bullet proofing” this or that on a vehicle spending thousands of dollars replacing perfectly good OE parts.

The vanos hub is the one thing that got me. Besides the fix of multiple known issues (tabs, bolts, chain guide) I had an oil leak both at the vanos gasket & the oil feed line. For the last 3 years or so, underside plastic tray has been wet from an oil leak, not enough to leak on the ground, but enough to collect sludge. I tracked it down to CPV & Vanos stuff.


I don’t have INPA, as I don’t have a windows laptop & didn’t really want to buy one for this one thing, I have no interest in coding anything & the Foxwell scanner is painfully slow & awkward, but works for what I need it to do.

I realize many people successfully have done this w/o torturing bolts, but all the 10mm crows foot I’ve seen are 3/8” drive & IMHO you can’t accurately torque 14nm with a 3/8” drive torque wrench w/ a 3/8” to 1/4” adapter & a crows foot. This is not because of the crows foot, but mainly because 14nm falls way low on the scale of what an average 3/8” torque wrench is rated at & your average torque wrench is innacurate near the lower & upper limits of its acceptable torque value.

Just out of curiosity it tested this w/ a 1/4” & 3/8” drive torque wrench on a 14mm bolt @ 14nm. Where they clicked wasn’t even close. Granite, I’m using cheapo Harbor Freight torque wrenches, but they have served me well in the past. I’m already in the process & I think I’ve decided to go on with steps that require re-timing the engine - mainly because I wanna replace the plastic chain tensioner with the beefy Besian on I got & because I’ve spent soooo much time researching this I think I’d feel like a puss if I didn’t do it at this point.

[sapote]

When putting the pin in the exhaust cam the bridge sits off the exhaust side of the head maybe 3/4” - I believe that’s slightly advanced

Cams precisely at max retard to align with the pin is when the vanos pistons are touching the front cover caps. With caps removed you can see this easily.

[Cubieman]

Thank you very much for your post. I'd been under the impression that there'd been a nearly perfect record with Beisan disks going back well into the m3forum days, and they've been great for me in both of my cars. How did Beisan respond to your issues?

Still won't withdraw my VAC statement because I'm sitting here looking at my botched VAC ATI damper pulley which I use as a paperweight to remind me not to buy crappy mods (and tools - see my video above - ECS to blame for that one.) I'd have preferred to send it back to them for a refund, but they stopped answering me.

Raj was great and infact refunded all money spent and sent me a re-drilled BMW disc, it wasn't fun to do the job twice but shit happens.

As Slideways said, and as I forgot, they do not make these aftermarket discs anymore so that worry is over.

[Slideways]

Thank you very much for your post. I'd been under the impression that there'd been a nearly perfect record with Beisan disks going back well into the m3forum days, and they've been great for me in both of my cars. How did Beisan respond to your issues?

Still won't withdraw my VAC statement because I'm sitting here looking at my botched VAC ATI damper pulley which I use as a paperweight to remind me not to buy crappy mods (and tools - see my video above - ECS to blame for that one.) I'd have preferred to send it back to them for a refund, but they stopped answering me.

It should be mentioned that the Beisan discs that had problems were the brand new Beisan (not OE BMW) discs with two holes, which Cubie and Mau had IIRC. They only offered these because some cores were not being sent back on time or at all. They have not offered these discs for a long time since they stocked up on cores.

Besian only offers redrilled OE BMW discs with four holes which have never had an issue to my knowledge.

[ethan]

He had an issue with the Beisan pump disc, as did I. In my case (and I believe Mau's) the "new" discs did not produce anywhere near sufficient pressure as to pass a vanos test.

In my particular case it was due to loose fitment between the center of disc and shaft of vanos unit. When the engine was switched off pressure dropped to 0 bar almost instantaneously and if I recall correctly the pressure was less than half of what it should have been at idle.

I am NOT saying Beisan is bad, "they" are anything but, however on this forum there has been at least 3 cases of the discs either not producing pressure or the pistons not fitting the holes.

I'm sure that these issues have been corrected, not trying to speak for Mau, but just some context that at some point there was known issues.

Thank you very much for your post. I'd been under the impression that there'd been a nearly perfect record with Beisan disks going back well into the m3forum days, and they've been great for me in both of my cars. How did Beisan respond to your issues?

Still won't withdraw my VAC statement because I'm sitting here looking at my botched VAC ATI damper pulley which I use as a paperweight to remind me not to buy crappy mods (and tools - see my video above - ECS to blame for that one.) I'd have preferred to send it back to them for a refund, but they stopped answering me.

[Cubieman]

The Beisan disks work reliably and are cost-effective, whereas VAC is a terrible company which has screwed many members of this forum. Please stop shilling their products in every VANOS thread.

He had an issue with the Beisan pump disc, as did I. In my case (and I believe Mau's) the "new" discs did not produce anywhere near sufficient pressure as to pass a vanos test.

In my particular case it was due to loose fitment between the center of disc and shaft of vanos unit. When the engine was switched off pressure dropped to 0 bar almost instantaneously and if I recall correctly the pressure was less than half of what it should have been at idle.

I am NOT saying Beisan is bad, "they" are anything but, however on this forum there has been at least 3 cases of the discs either not producing pressure or the pistons not fitting the holes.

I'm sure that these issues have been corrected, not trying to speak for Mau, but just some context that at some point there was known issues.

[Slideways]

Big noob question here... would the engine need to be re-timed, if only replacing the hub (and bolts)?

Yes; however, you can replace the pump disc without retiming the engine.

If you really don't want to retime the engine, you really should check the bolts from the backside with a pick to see if they have started to loosen. For the last VANOS I did, I stuck with the essentials - pump disc, chain guide, seal kit, and cam bolts.

[ethan]

Thanks you for your PM help. I’ll wait til the BMW cam bridge comes & see how it goes.

You've researched this extensively, but you bought a non-OE bridge?

Warning: Use only Genuine BMW alignment bridge. All available aftermarket bridges are not precise and will cause wrong timing and possibly bent valves.

http://ethan-e46-public.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/timing_tools_compressed.mp4

Follow the guide and everything will be fine.

The common method of tightening bolts by feel & loosening them 90° seems sketchy to me, a lot of people seem to have issues with it & there is no real way to accurately torque hub bolts to 14nm, which seems really important if the hub is acting as a clutch pretensioning the system. You can’t really do it w/ a crows foot either, because all of those are 3/8” drive & you can’t really use a 3/8” drive torque wrench to tighten to such a low torque of 14nm accurately - I’ve tested it - you need a 1/4” torque wrench or that $600 BMW torque wrench. Ugh. A lot of words. Sorry .

Just get them tight. Beisan says "by feel."

Fully tighten bolts, 14 Nm (by feel) (10.5 ft-lb) (10mm ratcheting wrench).
Tighten bolts evenly in multiple passes. Verify one pass with all bolts fully tightened.
Note: When bolts fully tightened they will protrude slightly from sprocket rear face (picture). Check by feel and compare bolts.

People get good INPA tests doing it this way and nobody's having their bolts back out - what's the issue?

[ethan]

I personally don't trust anybody, so I do all my work. if it was me, I would just buy a VAC hub with the larger tabs.

The Beisan disks work reliably and are cost-effective, whereas VAC is a terrible company which has screwed many members of this forum. Please stop shilling their products in every VANOS thread.

[WoGGo]

if it was me, I would just buy a VAC hub with the larger tabs.

Big noob question here... would the engine need to be re-timed, if only replacing the hub (and bolts)?