S54 Vanos Help

[Savageblunder]

Hi, l could use some help from thee S54 vanos gurus here. First, I know aftermaket timing bridges are not considered accurate. I have a new BMW one coming & just using this to compare. I ordered a BMW & it arrived damaged - this one was just to check the factory set timing before anything was disturbed so I could proceed with disassembly confidently before BMW took arrived.

This is a 2008 S54 Z4M that runs perfectly. I bought it “new” in 2009, but it was a demo if I recall. I’m doing Besian exhaust hub, timing chain guide, cam bolts, etc… This motor has never been worked on other than valve adjustment by me, unless it was done prior to me getting the car…

I have the crank locked @ TDC with the crank pin, I removed the VANOS solenoid/manifold & VANOS “caps” to let out any oil. I’ve rocked the cams w/ 24 mm wrench excessively, rotated engine, repeated - multiple times. I haven’t removed the splined shafts from the engine - I believe they have not been removed since factory.

This was an initial check before I did the work. No matter what I do, the exhaust cam will not line up with the pin so the bridge sits flat on the head. Again, I haven’t messed with anything critical yet - this is just to check how it is initially. I know the DME sets the cams so they are not fully retarded for next start up, but I thought this was over come by removing the solenoid & vanos caps & rocking the cams towards passenger side with the crank lock pin in. When putting the pin in the exhaust cam the bridge sits off the exhaust side of the head maybe 3/4” - I believe that’s slightly advanced.

My question is, does that mean this engine’s timing is off a little as it stands? Or is there no way to accurately check cam timing unless starting from ground zero & installing splines shafts, etc… On a side note a see a minuscule amount of what appears to be blue residue (permatex RTV style on top of the guides where the vanos gasket hooks on - see pic. It’s minuscule, but it’s blue. Not sure what to think of that.

pic 1 shows blue RTV ?

pic 2 distance bridge sits off head

ive since removed vanos unit (not splined shafts) & timing is the same - bridge won’t sit flat on exhaust side.

[jayjaya29]

Wait until the new genuine BMW tool arrives. The aftermarket cheapo ones do not have a good reputation.

However, if you are going to be replacing the cam bolts it does not matter what the timing on the motor is right now. You will have to start from scratch after installing the cam bolts.

[Slideways]

Don't worry about the timing right now. As long as the engine is at TDC with the first two cam lobes roughly facing towards each other, that is all that is needed. Keep following the Beisan instructions. The blue substance is from the VANOS gasket. When it is crushed, it has a blue substance in it that squeezes to provide a seal.

[Savageblunder]

Wait until the new genuine BMW tool arrives. The aftermarket cheapo ones do not have a good reputation.

However, if you are going to be replacing the cam bolts it does not matter what the timing on the motor is right now. You will have to start from scratch after installing the cam bolts.

Wait until the new genuine BMW tool arrives. The aftermarket cheapo ones do not have a good reputation.

However, if you are going to be replacing the cam bolts it does not matter what the timing on the motor is right now. You will have to start from scratch after installing the cam bolts.

Thank you both for your input - esp for the “blue substance” tip. I thought it could’ve been aftermarket Permatex RTV. The thing is I’m actually trying to decide if doing upper chain guide & cam bolts is worth the potential headache of having to re-time the engine & risking “issues”. I have the vanos itself out & apart & my
main thing was to do the exhaust hub (Besian) with smaller holes . The tabs were good & the original holes with very little wear (90k miles).

I stuck a boroscope in & the chain guide looks fine. It’s a Z4 M & a 2008 - cam bolts backing out & a broken chain guide seem very uncommon for whatever reason on these cars. I have a basic BMW / Foxwell scanner to re-set Vanos adaptations, but don’t have INPA or anything else that requires a Windows laptop, because I’ve never needed it & don’t own a Windows laptop.

issue #2 making me lean this way is on Z4 you cannot put Vanos back on with splined hubs installed - you have to put splined hubs on car first & then bolt the Vanos on to them on car, as there is no room due to radiator support. So, in preparation, just in case - I pulled the caps to measure where the pistons are when they are all the way back in the Vanos & planned to re-install without the caps so I can verify they are bottomed out.

interesingly enough - at the back in the bore with pistons hitting the caps stops- they are not at the same depth. The exhaust is about 0.048mm from end of bore & intake is about 0.027mm below end of bore. I have the Besian chain guide & new cam bolts but not sure what I’m going to do yet - the internet seems filled with people who followed Besian procedure & have had issues for whatever reason. I think I’ll wait for the BMW cam bridge to get here, but it does look like the exhaust may be off & that doesn’t make me feel any better about messing with it, if I can’t understand what’s going on with it initially. Maybe the engines were off from the factory?

[Savageblunder]

****Sideways - thatnk you so much - I typed you this long PM (posted below) & it won’t let me send it. Prob cuz I’m a “new member”. I’m really not, I’ve been wrenching on my BMWs for 25 years & have posted on & off on various BMW forums - but had to re-join here cuz I couldn’t remember my user name or email…

PM:

Thanks you for your PM help. I’ll wait til the BMW cam bridge comes & see how it goes. I’ve researched this extensively for Z4M (what info there is) & so far so good. I was able to get Vanos out w/ oil feed tube attached w/o issue & I think the way I’m going to do it is put splined shafts in car hubs loose on previously found sweet spot tooth, mount Vanos loosely w/ long bolts, attach Vanos to splined shafts, bottom out pistons, tighten Vanos to 3mm of head with spacing tool, tighten top 3 hub bolts on each hub, remove Vanos from vehicle leaving splined shafts in vehicle, torque hubs to 14nm, re-attach Vanos to car, attatch splined shafts (hubs are torqued - cams shouldn’t move), tighten down Vanos, remove/reinstall Vanos piston caps to make sure they are still bottomed out, then spin the engine by hand a bunch of times & check w/ bridge to make sure all is good.
***Does that sound correct & mostly idiot proof? *** My only question is doing it this way, should I initially tighten the top 3 hub bolts with vanos 3-5mm from head or when it’s completely mounted against head, if I’m going to subsequently remove it to use a torque wrench to torque hubs bolts to 14nm w/ vanos on bench? I think the former? The common method of tightening bolts by feel & loosening them 90° seems sketchy to me, a lot of people seem to have issues with it & there is no real way to accurately torque hub bolts to 14nm, which seems really important if the hub is acting as a clutch pretensioning the system. You can’t really do it w/ a crows foot either, because all of those are 3/8” drive & you can’t really use a 3/8” drive torque wrench to tighten to such a low torque of 14nm accurately - I’ve tested it - you need a 1/4” torque wrench or that $600 BMW torque wrench. Ugh. A lot of words. Sorry .

[maupineda]

if you want an honest advise... leave the VANOS alone! do not buy on the internet hype of a ticking bomb, it just IS NOT. You car already has the latest fasteners, the OE seals in the unit last very long, and if you really want to avoid future issues, just re-drill the disc, this is easy, but requires someone you can trust to do a precise job. I personally don't trust anybody, so I do all my work. if it was me, I would just buy a VAC hub with the larger tabs.

To answer your questions, you need to put more of your might on the 24mm wrench as it is hydraulically set in position, so you need to remove the solenoid body, rock the wrench back and forth to spill out the oil left in the system, this will eventually allow you to fully retard the cams and assess the timing. You can also read with INPA you adaptation, that will tell you any deviation from 0, which ALL cars have, even after a perfect timing job! so DO NOT sweat it.

Before ANY VANOS job one must...

Do pressure test
Do VANOS test with INPA/ ISAT / DIS (Z4M works with ALL these - yes, even INPA)

And only if any of the above does not meet spec, then fix. otherwise, find yourself something else to fix.

[Slideways]

My only question is doing it this way, should I initially tighten the top 3 hub bolts with vanos 3-5mm from head or when it’s completely mounted against head, if I’m going to subsequently remove it to use a torque wrench to torque hubs bolts to 14nm w/ vanos on bench? I think the former? The common method of tightening bolts by feel & loosening them 90° seems sketchy to me, a lot of people seem to have issues with it & there is no real way to accurately torque hub bolts to 14nm, which seems really important if the hub is acting as a clutch pretensioning the system. You can’t really do it w/ a crows foot either, because all of those are 3/8” drive & you can’t really use a 3/8” drive torque wrench to tighten to such a low torque of 14nm accurately - I’ve tested it - you need a 1/4” torque wrench or that $600 BMW torque wrench. Ugh. A lot of words. Sorry.

Tightening and releasing the bolts 90 degrees does not have to be done with a torque wrench. Tighten by feel and back off 90 degrees.

A standard crows foot with socket extension can work for the final torquing procedure, just have to keep crows foot at a 90 degree angle (9 o'clock position) from the head of the torque wrench when tightening the bolts.

[WoGGo]

if it was me, I would just buy a VAC hub with the larger tabs.

Big noob question here... would the engine need to be re-timed, if only replacing the hub (and bolts)?

[ethan]

I personally don't trust anybody, so I do all my work. if it was me, I would just buy a VAC hub with the larger tabs.

The Beisan disks work reliably and are cost-effective, whereas VAC is a terrible company which has screwed many members of this forum. Please stop shilling their products in every VANOS thread.

[ethan]

Thanks you for your PM help. I’ll wait til the BMW cam bridge comes & see how it goes.

You've researched this extensively, but you bought a non-OE bridge?

Warning: Use only Genuine BMW alignment bridge. All available aftermarket bridges are not precise and will cause wrong timing and possibly bent valves.

http://ethan-e46-public.sfo2.digitaloceanspaces.com/timing_tools_compressed.mp4

Follow the guide and everything will be fine.

The common method of tightening bolts by feel & loosening them 90° seems sketchy to me, a lot of people seem to have issues with it & there is no real way to accurately torque hub bolts to 14nm, which seems really important if the hub is acting as a clutch pretensioning the system. You can’t really do it w/ a crows foot either, because all of those are 3/8” drive & you can’t really use a 3/8” drive torque wrench to tighten to such a low torque of 14nm accurately - I’ve tested it - you need a 1/4” torque wrench or that $600 BMW torque wrench. Ugh. A lot of words. Sorry .

Just get them tight. Beisan says "by feel."

Fully tighten bolts, 14 Nm (by feel) (10.5 ft-lb) (10mm ratcheting wrench).
Tighten bolts evenly in multiple passes. Verify one pass with all bolts fully tightened.
Note: When bolts fully tightened they will protrude slightly from sprocket rear face (picture). Check by feel and compare bolts.

People get good INPA tests doing it this way and nobody's having their bolts back out - what's the issue?

[Slideways]

Big noob question here... would the engine need to be re-timed, if only replacing the hub (and bolts)?

Yes; however, you can replace the pump disc without retiming the engine.

If you really don't want to retime the engine, you really should check the bolts from the backside with a pick to see if they have started to loosen. For the last VANOS I did, I stuck with the essentials - pump disc, chain guide, seal kit, and cam bolts.

[Cubieman]

The Beisan disks work reliably and are cost-effective, whereas VAC is a terrible company which has screwed many members of this forum. Please stop shilling their products in every VANOS thread.

He had an issue with the Beisan pump disc, as did I. In my case (and I believe Mau's) the "new" discs did not produce anywhere near sufficient pressure as to pass a vanos test.

In my particular case it was due to loose fitment between the center of disc and shaft of vanos unit. When the engine was switched off pressure dropped to 0 bar almost instantaneously and if I recall correctly the pressure was less than half of what it should have been at idle.

I am NOT saying Beisan is bad, "they" are anything but, however on this forum there has been at least 3 cases of the discs either not producing pressure or the pistons not fitting the holes.

I'm sure that these issues have been corrected, not trying to speak for Mau, but just some context that at some point there was known issues.

[ethan]

He had an issue with the Beisan pump disc, as did I. In my case (and I believe Mau's) the "new" discs did not produce anywhere near sufficient pressure as to pass a vanos test.

In my particular case it was due to loose fitment between the center of disc and shaft of vanos unit. When the engine was switched off pressure dropped to 0 bar almost instantaneously and if I recall correctly the pressure was less than half of what it should have been at idle.

I am NOT saying Beisan is bad, "they" are anything but, however on this forum there has been at least 3 cases of the discs either not producing pressure or the pistons not fitting the holes.

I'm sure that these issues have been corrected, not trying to speak for Mau, but just some context that at some point there was known issues.

Thank you very much for your post. I'd been under the impression that there'd been a nearly perfect record with Beisan disks going back well into the m3forum days, and they've been great for me in both of my cars. How did Beisan respond to your issues?

Still won't withdraw my VAC statement because I'm sitting here looking at my botched VAC ATI damper pulley which I use as a paperweight to remind me not to buy crappy mods (and tools - see my video above - ECS to blame for that one.) I'd have preferred to send it back to them for a refund, but they stopped answering me.

[Slideways]

Thank you very much for your post. I'd been under the impression that there'd been a nearly perfect record with Beisan disks going back well into the m3forum days, and they've been great for me in both of my cars. How did Beisan respond to your issues?

Still won't withdraw my VAC statement because I'm sitting here looking at my botched VAC ATI damper pulley which I use as a paperweight to remind me not to buy crappy mods (and tools - see my video above - ECS to blame for that one.) I'd have preferred to send it back to them for a refund, but they stopped answering me.

It should be mentioned that the Beisan discs that had problems were the brand new Beisan (not OE BMW) discs with two holes, which Cubie and Mau had IIRC. They only offered these because some cores were not being sent back on time or at all. They have not offered these discs for a long time since they stocked up on cores.

Besian only offers redrilled OE BMW discs with four holes which have never had an issue to my knowledge.

[Cubieman]

Thank you very much for your post. I'd been under the impression that there'd been a nearly perfect record with Beisan disks going back well into the m3forum days, and they've been great for me in both of my cars. How did Beisan respond to your issues?

Still won't withdraw my VAC statement because I'm sitting here looking at my botched VAC ATI damper pulley which I use as a paperweight to remind me not to buy crappy mods (and tools - see my video above - ECS to blame for that one.) I'd have preferred to send it back to them for a refund, but they stopped answering me.

Raj was great and infact refunded all money spent and sent me a re-drilled BMW disc, it wasn't fun to do the job twice but shit happens.

As Slideways said, and as I forgot, they do not make these aftermarket discs anymore so that worry is over.