Euro headers vs Supersprint step 1

[CrisSilberGrau]

It’s clear that most enthusiasts understand the general principles of how exhaust systems work, but the claims in videos like this are often overly generalized. From a practical standpoint, the Euro headers seem to offer the best value for the majority of setups, as this video indirectly demonstrates. For most average configurations, Euro headers strike a good balance between cost, flow efficiency, and performance gains.

However, there are edge cases where extreme setups push the limits of what Euro headers can handle in terms of exhaust flow dynamics, turbulence, and heat retention—factors that can impact exhaust velocity and overall system performance. These outliers typically involve highly modified engines where the increased flow capacity of premium options, such as Supersprint (SS) headers, becomes relevant.

For the average enthusiast, investing $800–$1,000 in factory catless Euro headers to achieve meaningful power gains is a far more cost-effective approach than spending $2,500–$3,000 on Supersprint headers. The latter also requires significantly more investment in supporting modifications and tuning to fully utilize their advantages over the Euro headers. While that higher investment makes sense for those pursuing high-dollar engine builds, it’s beyond the needs or budget of most enthusiasts.

The video could have been improved with more context, particularly in the description, to clarify these nuances and help viewers better understand the scenarios where premium headers might be worth the additional expense.

LoL that reads like mild ChatGPT text. I dont trust anything these days.

You are correct. The other main issue, is a well known tuner and provider of services for BMWs like the E46 is conducting this test with such mediocrity it hurts. You're not really just pandering to the average M54 330 ffs, SSV1 like you said, is a serious investment for a full setup plus tune/dyno time. Pretty damn close to supercharging setup all in. Why not educate the masses properly and have a proper stepped test where you take all variables and make more informed conclusions.

Everyone laments the loss of knowledge and posts from the m3f.net days but I didnt expect this from Kassel tbh. It's upsetting.

PS. You mentioned some stuff I completely forgot about: Heat retention. Would coated headers, either with quality ceramic or zircotec coatings, improve exhaust flow due to heat retention (not sure if thats the correct term to use here) and as a byproduct have an effect on the horsepower output?

[nextelbuddy]

LoL that reads like mild ChatGPT text. I dont trust anything these days.

You are correct. The other main issue, is a well known tuner and provider of services for BMWs like the E46 is conducting this test with such mediocrity it hurts. You're not really just pandering to the average M54 330 ffs, SSV1 like you said, is a serious investment for a full setup plus tune/dyno time. Pretty damn close to supercharging setup all in. Why not educate the masses properly and have a proper stepped test where you take all variables and make more informed conclusions.

Everyone laments the loss of knowledge and posts from the m3f.net days but I didnt expect this from Kassel tbh. It's upsetting.

PS. You mentioned some stuff I completely forgot about: Heat retention. Would coated headers, either with quality ceramic or zircotec coatings, improve exhaust flow due to heat retention (not sure if thats the correct term to use here) and as a byproduct have an effect on the horsepower output?

I would agree that coated headers help. They keep the heat out of the bay, the heat doesn't disappear, its retained in the exhaust manifolds and heat speeds up the movement to get out as long as the manifold design supports that movement with the runner design as well as the collector size, placement and design.

[Altaran]

Something popped my head when watching this and hearing him mention he is using the second bung in the headers to connect the o2 sensor.
I looked at this on mine as well, since the position does seem better. But I noticed in my headers the second bung is not completely open to the exhaust flow, it has a shield with just a little bore. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture.

I have V2 headers in mine that I got some 10 years ago used on the old forum when I lived stateside, so I am not sure if Supersprint still makes it this way. But if they do, don't use it for the primary O2 sensors. It would only get a very reduced exhaust flow, the readings would be shit...

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[ATB88]

Something popped my head when watching this and hearing him mention he is using the second bung in the headers to connect the o2 sensor.
I looked at this on mine as well, since the position does seem better. But I noticed in my headers the second bung is not completely open to the exhaust flow, it has a shield with just a little bore. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture.

I have V2 headers in mine that I got some 10 years ago used on the old forum when I lived stateside, so I am not sure if Supersprint still makes it this way. But if they do, don't use it for the primary O2 sensors. It would only get a very reduced exhaust flow, the readings would be shit...

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I was actually wondering about this when I did my SSV1 install last year. I was conflicted because the upstream bung at the merge, if you look inside, seems to be so far up that you might not be getting a good average reading from all three cylinders as Coyne says. The port further downstream seems better on paper, but is too far for the standard O2 sensor to reach without lengthening the O2 sensor wires (or using a different longer sensor). Ended up going with the compromised seeming upstream bung -- is this of any real consequence?

[Slideways]

Something popped my head when watching this and hearing him mention he is using the second bung in the headers to connect the o2 sensor.
I looked at this on mine as well, since the position does seem better. But I noticed in my headers the second bung is not completely open to the exhaust flow, it has a shield with just a little bore. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture.

I have V2 headers in mine that I got some 10 years ago used on the old forum when I lived stateside, so I am not sure if Supersprint still makes it this way. But if they do, don't use it for the primary O2 sensors. It would only get a very reduced exhaust flow, the readings would be shit...

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Before the DME parameters were well known, certain headers had internal defoulers in the post-lambda position to reduce exhaust flow to that sensor and not trigger the CEL light. That is probably what you have in those early V2s.

[Tbonem3]

Use the extra bung for a wideband to aid in tuning

[ATB88]

Use the extra bung for a wideband to aid in tuning

This is actually what I did -- I pre-emptively installed two widebands in the two extra bungs anticipating that I could use them to improve tuning in the future. Haven't installed an interface for them yet though. I still question if it matters which of the two bungs on bank 1 the narrowband that the DME sees goes into though. The bung at the merge looks like a bad one to use because of the internal walls you can see shielding off exhaust from two cylinders (favors cylinder 2), but the nicer further bung post-merge doesn't allow the connector to reach. If anyone has reports on improvements by using the farther bung I would make the effort to extend and relocate.

[Rudbari]

Oem H-pipe is far better than SS x-pipe . If you want to gain from SS V1 use H-pipe .

[Obioban]

As others have said, too many variables tested at the same time. The problem here is the section 2, not the headers.

[enjoy_m3]

I wish for content, they should have also used a megan header to distinguish the difference between the budget and premium.

[x Spades x]

Bro stop it.

362hp
279tq

On Euro headers with no CSL airbox, no 288/280 cams, no 2.5 inch piping.

Recalibrate that dyno again. 😆 🤣 😂

[KhanArt]

I came back to the forum just for this. This was not the result I was expecting. Kind of reminds me of the old m3f days.

Bro stop it.

362hp
279tq

On Euro headers with no CSL airbox, no 288/280 cams, no 2.5 inch piping.

Recalibrate that dyno again. 😆 🤣 😂

I got flamed back in the day for less power and similar mods. The new crowd is nice.

[digger]

Bro stop it.

362hp
279tq

On Euro headers with no CSL airbox, no 288/280 cams, no 2.5 inch piping.

Recalibrate that dyno again. 😆 🤣 😂

you're forgetting in we are some of the worst times for inflation



what mods did the car have?

[stash1]

I came back to the forum just for this. This was not the result I was expecting. Kind of reminds me of the old m3f days.



I got flamed back in the day for less power and similar mods. The new crowd is nice.

Me 'two', kinda moved on & haven't posted in a couple of yrs-lol. Haha, must be the new 'inclusive/woke' forum rules in place now...still miss the old m3f as well Z! Sorry, nothing else really to add to the thread...exhaust stuff long since beaten to death. (where's the old beating a dead horse emoji?)

[LeopardM3]

Me 'two', kinda moved on & haven't posted in a couple of yrs-lol. Haha, must be the new 'inclusive/woke' forum rules in place now...still miss the old m3f as well Z! Sorry, nothing else really to add to the thread...exhaust stuff long since beaten to death. (where's the old beating a dead horse emoji?)

This has been a fun thread to read through. I too miss the old M3F.net days, but not because of Zo - although he was entertaining at times.