PFC brake package - opinions please

[1bluemcm]

This would be going on a Z4M, but same brakes as E46 M3 ZCP/CSL, so asking here.

A local guy has a near full set of PFC brakes for E46 M3 available. ZR31 (part numbers 31.373.365,410.12 / 11) and ZR29 (part numbers 29.323.440.000.13 / 14) calipers, F and R brackets, NIB 355mm V3 front rotors (55.059.63 and 355.059.64), stainless braided lines (which I may or may not be able to use), and a ton of spares for rebuilding. Fully operational, came off a E46 M3 so used, but calipers in excellent condition. I'd need to pick up rear rotors. I have wheels that will accommodate them (RAC RG63).

I know these were pretty popular several years ago as a performance BBK kit on the M3. Anyone know how they are for maintenance, reliability? Any weird quriks? There are still pretty good pad options, how would they behave with a street pad and in street use as well? They wouldn't be going on a track-dedicated car.

How's pedal feel compared to stock, if anyone knows? I believe they were designed by PFC to work well with the stock master cylinder, but this always concerns me with any BBK change.

Wondering if anyone had experience with similar setups, and sage advice. Thanks.

[Estoril]

As I understand it, PFC is getting out of the BBK game. So availability of future components is a considerable issue. Its also pointless overkill for a street car.

[Projecte46m3]

I can speak on this as I currently have a full PFC BBK installed on my E46 M3.

Well where do I start....I have a slightly different kit using ZR45 front calipers (355mm v2 rotors) and ZR31 rear calipers (328mm v2 rotors). There aren't really any quirks or issues with the calipers as long as you have rebuild parts for whenever that times comes. With that said, PFC is already out the door with servicing 95% of their old kits so sourcing parts is a bit challenging. Bimmerworld is a decent resource if you need replacement parts. It would be great if you know exactly what you have so you can search online. I assume you have the PFC Z-rated pads so you should be fine with street use.

The one thing I will mention is check if you have the street or race retaining rings on the v3 rotors. There is a size difference and the race version will make a TON of noise on the street which sucks.

This video explains the retaining ring differences:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILj3Jlb4HKQ&t=64s&ab_channel=PFCBrakes

FYI, the calipers should have codes/serial numbers stamped on them. So the way the codes break down is AA.BBB.CCC.DDD.FF.
AA is the caliper/kit
BBB is the rotor size
CCC and DDD are the caliper piston sizes - 29mm/36.5mm is probably what you have for the front ZR31 calipers.
FF - I'm not entirely sure but might refer to the pad depth.

[Nate047]

Not to sidetrack, but if you change your mind and decide you just want some nice PFC pads, I have some extra BNIB 08 compound pads for our stock calipers.

[1bluemcm]

Thanks fellas. I get it about overkill on a street car. I'm not new to this. I figured it would be said. I get it.

Product support is a concern. I do believe the nib front rotors are the race ready version with the retaining ring. Starting to not sound like the best option. Appreciate the info.

[Slideways]

You want a Brembo GT 355/345 setup. Common pad shape and pretty sure Race Technologies still stocks parts for them.

I'd run the PFC kit only if the car was more track oriented or if it came with the car.

[1bluemcm]

You want a Brembo GT 355/345 setup. Common pad shape and pretty sure Race Technologies still stocks parts for them.

I'd run the PFC kit only if the car was more track oriented or if it came with the car.

Thanks. Wilwood has got a nice setup too; Aero6 + Superlite 4R. you'd think they'd support their stuff for quite a while.

[S54330Ci]

I would encourage you to look at the following AP Racing kit from Essex.

Front: https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...t-cp8350-e46m3
Rear: https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racing...kit-rear-e46m3

The front uses the CP8350 four piston caliper and 325mm rotors so it will fit under 17" wheels if so desired. The rear uses the CP5144 caliper that mounts using the factory caliper mounting points and retains the stock rotor.

While this kit is not as sexy as the six piston designs it has more than enough stopping power for your street car. The CP8350 uses a common pad shape supported by many manufacturers and are oftentimes under $250 a set. The CP5144 caliper also uses common pads shapes to keep costs in check. Street compatible pads are available from Hawk, Cobalt Friction, Ferodo and others. The front pads are 20mm thick so they will last many years in a street driven environment.

I have this setup (front and rear) on my S54 powered 330Ci track car and it is fantastic. You can hammer the brakes all day long with no fade. Pad swaps are as easy as removing one retaining pin (caliper does not need to be removed, front or rear).

AP Racing has full US support and parts availability is strong. Unlike PFC, you will be able to source rotor rings and caliper parts with no issues.

Cost is reasonable and you can buy the front and rear kits for the price of a six piston front only.

[Slideways]

The AP kit was popular with CSL owners.

I've only seen Wilwoods on older cars such as E30s.

[usdmej]

As I understand it, PFC is getting out of the BBK game.

Just the bbks? Are they just gonna focus on pads then?

[jayjaya29]

Just the bbks? Are they just gonna focus on pads then?

Might be rumors but heard they are gonna focus on commercial/industrial applications.

[1bluemcm]

The AP kit was popular with CSL owners.

I've only seen Wilwoods on older cars such as E30s.

I would have said the same thing about Wilwood brakes. These are undoubtedly geared toward the modern car crown:

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront?itemno=140-14751-DR&year=2004&make=BMW&model=M3&option=All

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdRear?itemno=140-14752-DR&year=2004&make=BMW&model=M3&option=All

[1bluemcm]

I would encourage you to look at the following AP Racing kit from Essex.

Front: https://www.essexparts.com/essex-des...t-cp8350-e46m3
Rear: https://www.essexparts.com/ap-racing...kit-rear-e46m3

The front uses the CP8350 four piston caliper and 325mm rotors so it will fit under 17" wheels if so desired. The rear uses the CP5144 caliper that mounts using the factory caliper mounting points and retains the stock rotor.

While this kit is not as sexy as the six piston designs it has more than enough stopping power for your street car. The CP8350 uses a common pad shape supported by many manufacturers and are oftentimes under $250 a set. The CP5144 caliper also uses common pads shapes to keep costs in check. Street compatible pads are available from Hawk, Cobalt Friction, Ferodo and others. The front pads are 20mm thick so they will last many years in a street driven environment.

I have this setup (front and rear) on my S54 powered 330Ci track car and it is fantastic. You can hammer the brakes all day long with no fade. Pad swaps are as easy as removing one retaining pin (caliper does not need to be removed, front or rear).

AP Racing has full US support and parts availability is strong. Unlike PFC, you will be able to source rotor rings and caliper parts with no issues.

Cost is reasonable and you can buy the front and rear kits for the price of a six piston front only.

Thanks very much for this. I am very aware of the background of AP Racing brakes. I hadn't had much luck looking into them over here. I am definitely not set on a 6 piston caliper up front just to say it's a 6 piston caliper. A 325mm front rotor would actually be a downsize in fact - the Z4M has the CSL 345mm rotor. But I get that rotor size isn't everything. No problem purchasing from a UK distributor. Really appreciate the comments and links.

[Slideways]

I would have said the same thing about Wilwood brakes. These are undoubtedly geared toward the modern car crown:

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront?itemno=140-14751-DR&year=2004&make=BMW&model=M3&option=All

https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...=M3&option=All

It's a six piston front caliper, so it would be good to check the weight and compare it to the 4 pot options. Brakes are unsprung mass.

[1bluemcm]

I appreciate the input and discussion. I knew I'd get some good opinions here. Gonna pass on the PFCs. For what I'm doing with this car and to have a little fun messing with it but not going crazy, I may look into the Aston DB9 Brembo fronts + 996 rears. That seems to maintain virtually the same bias as original, good mix of form and function I think. And I have a fantastic local blasting/powdercoating shop, so I can clean the calipers up nicely.