288/280 vs 280/272 cams.

[Arith2]

That’s a relief. I keep reading thread about cam failures from CAT and now Schrick, it had me worried. There are so many members with cam failure it had me second guessing myself.


I am trying to build my motor NA but not have any problems. I am hoping I can catch some Black Friday deals on the Schrick cams and DLC followers.

is there anything else needed to get the cams to work properly and not risk future failure?

Not every single product will be perfect every time. It's just how it is. Follow torque sequences and replace the bolts that need to be replaced. There is so much you can replace while doing cams. I opted to doing literally every sensor, hose, and refresh my SMG fluid which has a 5 year service life. Have you removed a head before?

[bmw m3 s50]

No. It is EXTREMELY unlikely a cam will fail if you're replacing the rockers. For any car of any brands, these are always to be replaced with the cams. If you don't then it doesn't really matter what cam you use, it's prone to fail. I've seen a customer do it cheap, replace a cam and only do the lifter on the lobe that failed. They needed another cam shortly after and a few of the other lobes wore terribly. The engine was in the 90k range. This was a VR6 engine in a Cayenne. Do it right the first time and there's a very good chance you won't have to do it again. We've all been there due to time and/or money however this is one area that can destroy an engine in seconds. I wouldn't shy away from cams if you plan to spend the money for both.

That’s a relief. I keep reading thread about cam failures from CAT and now Schrick, it had me worried. There are so many members with cam failure it had me second guessing myself.


I am trying to build my motor NA but not have any problems. I am hoping I can catch some Black Friday deals on the Schrick cams and DLC followers.

is there anything else needed to get the cams to work properly and not risk future failure?

[Arith2]

Hey, are the schrick cam failures common at this point? I have been considering buying a set of 280/272 but have been concerned regarding the increased reported failures.

Are the failures related to not using the DLC followers?

No. It is EXTREMELY unlikely a cam will fail if you're replacing the rockers. For any car of any brands, these are always to be replaced with the cams. If you don't then it doesn't really matter what cam you use, it's prone to fail. I've seen a customer do it cheap, replace a cam and only do the lifter on the lobe that failed. They needed another cam shortly after and a few of the other lobes wore terribly. The engine was in the 90k range. This was a VR6 engine in a Cayenne. Do it right the first time and there's a very good chance you won't have to do it again. We've all been there due to time and/or money however this is one area that can destroy an engine in seconds. I wouldn't shy away from cams if you plan to spend the money for both.

[bmw m3 s50]

ZiMMie unfortunately he's right. After my ordeal with the post COVID Schricks that failed after break in of about 1,200kms I got a full cat cams set. The intake cam where the vanos vvt socket goes, the one the cam sprockets bolt to, and where the spline shaft enters was of conical shape. Smaller at the mouth and larger at the rear. Off by 0.015 at the mouth and +0.025 at the rear. Dad's a veteran Peng, said that after the hardening process they didn't recheck the cylinder values since the coating inside the cam was consistent with the rest of the piece (ie no machining traces).

Upon contacting catcams they said impossible until I showed them video and pics. They took care of shipping and returned the cam machined, I didn't get a new one as this cam was brand new never used.

I've been running the cat cam setup now for 2000km+ and no issues so far. I've delayed the new injectors and fuel rail to take my time with break in.

Once you open up the engine and deviating from stock you take major risks, financial and emotional.

Hey, are the schrick cam failures common at this point? I have been considering buying a set of 280/272 but have been concerned regarding the increased reported failures.

Are the failures related to not using the DLC followers?

[Arith2]

ZiMMie unfortunately he's right. After my ordeal with the post COVID Schricks that failed after break in of about 1,200kms I got a full cat cams set. The intake cam where the vanos vvt socket goes, the one the cam sprockets bolt to, and where the spline shaft enters was of conical shape. Smaller at the mouth and larger at the rear. Off by 0.015 at the mouth and +0.025 at the rear. Dad's a veteran Peng, said that after the hardening process they didn't recheck the cylinder values since the coating inside the cam was consistent with the rest of the piece (ie no machining traces).

Upon contacting catcams they said impossible until I showed them video and pics. They took care of shipping and returned the cam machined, I didn't get a new one as this cam was brand new never used.

I've been running the cat cam setup now for 2000km+ and no issues so far. I've delayed the new injectors and fuel rail to take my time with break in.

Once you open up the engine and deviating from stock you take major risks, financial and emotional.

This is why I removed my head, got it machined, new hardware and went with Schrick. I saw these issues arising so I ended up spending $7k on the head. I prefer everything right. All hardware, including sensors, is also getting replaced. Some are going to see this and understand, others are going to have a brain aneurysm.

[CrisSilberGrau]

Bad accuracy?

Cams have lift and duration.

You're saying they are ground wrong?

ZiMMie unfortunately he's right. After my ordeal with the post COVID Schricks that failed after break in of about 1,200kms I got a full cat cams set. The intake cam where the vanos vvt socket goes, the one the cam sprockets bolt to, and where the spline shaft enters was of conical shape. Smaller at the mouth and larger at the rear. Off by 0.015 at the mouth and +0.025 at the rear. Dad's a veteran Peng, said that after the hardening process they didn't recheck the cylinder values since the coating inside the cam was consistent with the rest of the piece (ie no machining traces).

Upon contacting catcams they said impossible until I showed them video and pics. They took care of shipping and returned the cam machined, I didn't get a new one as this cam was brand new never used.

I've been running the cat cam setup now for 2000km+ and no issues so far. I've delayed the new injectors and fuel rail to take my time with break in.

Once you open up the engine and deviating from stock you take major risks, financial and emotional.

[Obioban]

So keep the OE head bolts? Wont they stretch with heavy track use?

I blew a head gasket on an s52 years ago from that.

They will not— that is not an issue on the s54.

[SFD87]

No longevity benefit to going off OE head bolts.

So keep the OE head bolts? Wont they stretch with heavy track use?

I blew a head gasket on an s52 years ago from that.

[Obioban]

I saw numerous posts with the 288's but I dont want or need that aggressive of a cam.

Just ordered 280/272's. Ill also be installing ARP head studs in hopes this head gasket lasts me another 15 years

No longevity benefit to going off OE head bolts.

[9kracing]

My personal experience have not been good with them. i spent too much time thinking it could be other issues later to find out its bad cam.
Ive personally witness 3 cars with cat-cams which such a bad "accuracy" that i had to change the maximum adaption targets in for them to work.

Bad accuracy?

Cams have lift and duration.

You're saying they are ground wrong?

[SFD87]

I saw numerous posts with the 288's but I dont want or need that aggressive of a cam.

Just ordered 280/272's. Ill also be installing ARP head studs in hopes this head gasket lasts me another 15 years

[CrisSilberGrau]

Im on page one of this thread and was wondering if there is a dyne that shows the tq curve of these cams.

Also interested in your input on how the 280/272 feel with normal/spirited/track use.

Ill edit this if I get my answers in my research.

Dyno thread has numerous posts with various 288 or 280 setups.

On your point on how they feel, amazing. Dyno tune required for best results. Depending on your mod list you may also have to get higher flowing injectors. A lot is also dependent on the health of your setup too ie. Current compression. With all cams you lose some static compression, that's why the bug money builds include higher compression pistons and any accoutrements that those require.

Just FYI the notion that you don't need followers is now pretty much false. Both Schrick and Cat Cam will not warranty cam damage if you don't buy their full cam kit with followers (and oil bridge, drilled rocker arms for cat cams). I say this because I've been through this with Schrick based on this historical "data" with many members here.

Since COVID the metallurgy for the cam manufacturing process has changed. Followers should be included in this purchase price. If you love the S54 a cammed CSLed one is pretty much top of the food chain type shit.

[SFD87]

I think the 280/272s are a better choice for cars that see any street use.
-Better power below ~7800 rpm
-can reuse stock followers, which makes install much easier (and cheaper)
-smoother idle

I wouldn't be tempted by the 288/280 setup unless I was doing an increase compression ratio and/or stroker and/or high revving (8700+ rpm) build. For a "normal" (full exhaust, CSL intake, etc) bolt on build, 280/272 is the way to go IMO.

Im on page one of this thread and was wondering if there is a dyne that shows the tq curve of these cams.

Also interested in your input on how the 280/272 feel with normal/spirited/track use.

Ill edit this if I get my answers in my research.

[jet_dogg]

Yah man cost is definitely prohibitive sure, but if it means doing things the best possible way then ok. Im trying to gather as much information and also real life experience from sources like this forum. As ever there are differing opinions. My mechanic with loads of experience on Ms only, and building E46 M3 race cars with the parts in question has not used followers and those cars only see race tracks. Other sources close to me that I trust do the same with no issues. So after asking them and why, I'm looking for comparable examples and "how to's" in order to get a clearer picture.

It absolutely makes sense to me get both at the same time, just ... cost.

Lastly I was seriously asking about best practices as it relates to the break in procedure of cams as I was genuinely unaware. DLC install might also considerably add to the install complexity/time. Either way it's a pretty endgame setup for me so looking at all options, best options etc. for me and my use case scenario.

So you've canvassed these opinions from several reputable sources you trust and are now asking the forum in hopes of what? How much advice do you need before you decide what to do?

Don't get them and be done with this agonizing dilemma bro.

[terra]

You went with 288/280 and new followers i assume?

Would someone be able to explain the main reasoning between new followers being recommended for 288s vs 280s?

Has anyone not done followers for 288s and found no issues, conversely what are the issues that arise from not doing them?

I have 288/280s with my original followers and no issues thus far (20k miles on them I think?). I’m sure there’s some extra wear. I’m also pretty sure it won’t amount to a significant amount over the remaining life of the car.