M3T

[nextelbuddy]

Having had an M3 wagon (and an e91), I think the ultimate body style would actually be a no fold through seat sedan.

Wagons make sense if you can only have one car. If you can have more than one car, the wagon is a lot louder than a sedan/coupe, and comes with a weight penalty. Sedan has no weight or civility penalty over coupe, and has a chassis stiffness upgrade over the coupe.

I don't foresee any more wagons in my future. Pretty good odds of an S54 swapped sedan in my future.

Non fold rear seats here

[Obioban]

Non fold rear seats here

Yep, that's a pretty close to perfect e46 sedan!

... I'm likely going e39. Just waiting for the 2002s and 2003s to hit the 25 year rule, so I can import a M Sport 6 cylinder car with euro dash and no sunroof.

[Sharocks]

Swapping an N57 I have laying around into my F31 at some point. RWD + 500 whp/700wtq + 40-45 mpg should be fun.

No one cares about your automatic diesel stop drinking DEF.

[Sharocks]

Agreed. I think it is cool idea to tinker with to make into real life. But with these tuner shops, just takes one village idiot to fork over the money and then we get the sob story of a project that never gets finished yet the money sucking machine keeps on going.

I don't need an M wagon. An F3X wagon with an N55 or B58 would have been perfect!

We are in the pinnacle of "I'm special and my car is special" movement so I'm not surprised this cash grab even exists.

[Sharocks]

I know you don't believe that. You can't get the actual (even stock) e46 m3 experience for $20k, nor can you get a better experience elsewhere for $20k.

I do believe it because it's mostly true.

You can have an extremely tattered looking M3 that drives phenomenally for around 20-25k especially if you start off with a higher mileage example for like 12k (they do exist, they made 70k of these things).

If you're chasing perfection out of old cars, I have bad news for you lol

Also, an NA Miata + the cash you'd spend on an E46 would actually be pretty awesome (personally looking into this) and do everything I'd need the M3 to do without the bullshit of NLA parts and BMW stupidity.

[Sharocks]

Yep, that's a pretty close to perfect e46 sedan!

... I'm likely going e39. Just waiting for the 2002s and 2003s to hit the 25 year rule, so I can import a M Sport 6 cylinder car with euro dash and no sunroof.

This is the way, but with a boosted M54.

I'm in the early stages of turbocharging my M54 in my 6 speed X5.

But by the time E39's hit that age, there will be no parts left to do anything (currently E39 M5 ownership is horrendous).

[Obioban]

This is the way, but with a boosted M54.

I'm in the early stages of turbocharging my M54 in my 6 speed X5.

But by the time E39's hit that age, there will be no parts left to do anything (currently E39 M5 ownership is horrendous).

I don’t have any desire for a boosted M54, but part of me is tempted to import a 530d just to have a different experience for a while

[bigjae46]

Also, an NA Miata + the cash you'd spend on an E46 would actually be pretty awesome (personally looking into this) and do everything I'd need the M3 to do without the bullshit of NLA parts and BMW stupidity.

I almost got a Miata except I still wasn't ready to give up my dignity lol

But Spec Miata guys are also having a much harder time finding parts. Wheel bearings are becoming rare. And good luck finding a hardtop for less than $1k.

[Slideways]

I almost got a Miata except I still wasn't ready to give up my dignity lol

But Spec Miata guys are also having a much harder time finding parts. Wheel bearings are becoming rare. And good luck finding a hardtop for less than $1k.

Miata vs M3 consumables, that dignity is costing quite a bit hah

It made perfect sense trying to find a 1k hardtop and $700 diff when a whole Miata was less than 2k in the 2010s

[Bimma360]

I do believe it because it's mostly true.

You can have an extremely tattered looking M3 that drives phenomenally for around 20-25k especially if you start off with a higher mileage example for like 12k (they do exist, they made 70k of these things).

If you're chasing perfection out of old cars, I have bad news for you lol

Also, an NA Miata + the cash you'd spend on an E46 would actually be pretty awesome (personally looking into this) and do everything I'd need the M3 to do without the bullshit of NLA parts and BMW stupidity.

You are wayyyy too jaded man haha. Perfection, which is a subjective term, can be had of old cars. It just takes money, and a honest reflection of what the chassis is and what it isn't. I have been driving e30's and e36's almost exclusively going back to 2001. I know what it takes to live with old cars. The NLA parts and BMW BS isn't anything remotely new. You either take it in stride... or you buy a Miata I guess. I have driven a bunch of Miatas, very fun cars. But meh.

As far as the value on the experience, you lost me at tattered looking M3 haha. I'd argue that touch points and visuals are very much part of the experience.

[Sharocks]

I almost got a Miata except I still wasn't ready to give up my dignity lol

But Spec Miata guys are also having a much harder time finding parts. Wheel bearings are becoming rare. And good luck finding a hardtop for less than $1k.

I bought a new Supra with a manual to preserve that dignity and instead got nothing but questions from people with perms wearing Kith clothes.

I didn't know Mike Tyson sold clothes.

[Sharocks]

You are wayyyy too jaded man haha. Perfection, which is a subjective term, can be had of old cars. It just takes money, and a honest reflection of what the chassis is and what it isn't. I have been driving e30's and e36's almost exclusively going back to 2001. I know what it takes to live with old cars. The NLA parts and BMW BS isn't anything remotely new. You either take it in stride... or you buy a Miata I guess. I have driven a bunch of Miatas, very fun cars. But meh.

As far as the value on the experience, you lost me at tattered looking M3 haha. I'd argue that touch points and visuals are very much part of the experience.

I've been doing this for a long time and it's gotten old.

But I'm also very deep into my cars so it's justified IMHO.

It's always looks last, performance first.

I do consider touch points performance so none of my cars are in that boat (even the X5) but I'll see hell frozen over before I start chasing OCD paint swirls if my car isn't running 150% lol

But the E46 M3 is very much a 20k experience and we should all be thankful, this exhaust note for more than that is absolutely insane.

[bigjae46]

Miata vs M3 consumables, that dignity is costing quite a bit hah

It made perfect sense trying to find a 1k hardtop and $700 diff when a whole Miata was less than 2k in the 2010s

I happily spend more on consumables. I've never really looked back and wished I got the miata except when my rod exited the block. Driving a momentum car takes skill but I think there is a lot more skill involved with handling higher HP cars. And a Miata is sooooo slow I've never enjoyed driving, riding or even looking at one. GT3s and Radicals blow by me om the straights at COTA but being in a miata on the back straight is a whole other level of being slow.

My car is light enough where my tires and brakes last slightly less than an NA or NB Miata.

[Bimma360]

I've been doing this for a long time and it's gotten old.

But I'm also very deep into my cars so it's justified IMHO.

It's always looks last, performance first.

I do consider touch points performance so none of my cars are in that boat (even the X5) but I'll see hell frozen over before I start chasing OCD paint swirls if my car isn't running 150% lol

But the E46 M3 is very much a 20k experience and we should all be thankful, this exhaust note for more than that is absolutely insane.

Well I can 100% relate to the it's getting old part. I feel the exact same way, but perhaps our perspective on the matter is just different. Most people think about "old cars" as something you more or less restore and modify over an extended period of time. And what ends up happening usually, is that it never actually ends. That is tiring, and that is the kind of experience I am no longer interested in having. So my thesis is, just do it all at once. And that includes the touch points. I am not talking about paint swirls, but they are a good representation of my point. I need to be where I have the luxury to worry about paint swirls if I so choose to do so. Buying new(ish) gets you there. Or.... You spend new car money on an e46 m3 all at once.

And full circle, that is what I am talking about when putting a value number on an e46 m3 experience. What is the cost to get you there, and is there something comparable but better that gets you there for the same money or less? It aint a Miata, haha. Sure it's a great driver's car, like the e46, but that's it.

I have thought about this a great deal before I bought the e46. I was ready to spend $80k on an F87 M2 CS. I am already $70k into the e46. I think the M2 CS is a comparable experience when we are talking that kind of money spent. But in my eyes there really isn't much, I think an e46 can be an $80k experience.

[Obioban]

Well I can 100% relate to the it's getting old part. I feel the exact same way, but perhaps our perspective on the matter is just different. Most people think about "old cars" as something you more or less restore and modify over an extended period of time. And what ends up happening usually, is that it never actually ends. That is tiring, and that is the kind of experience I am no longer interested in having. So my thesis is, just do it all at once. And that includes the touch points. I am not talking about paint swirls, but they are a good representation of my point. I need to be where I have the luxury to worry about paint swirls if I so choose to do so. Buying new(ish) gets you there. Or.... You spend new car money on an e46 m3 all at once.

And full circle, that is what I am talking about when putting a value number on an e46 m3 experience. What is the cost to get you there, and is there something comparable but better that gets you there for the same money or less? It aint a Miata, haha. Sure it's a great driver's car, like the e46, but that's it.

I have thought about this a great deal before I bought the e46. I was ready to spend $80k on an F87 M2 CS. I am already $70k into the e46. I think the M2 CS is a comparable experience when we are talking that kind of money spent. But in my eyes there really isn't much, I think an e46 can be an $80k experience.

Yeah, doing it all at once, and not waiting for stuff to fail, is really the move. Do it once, do it all, do it right, and you can just enjoy the car.

I pretty much just drive it. In 30,000 miles, when it reaches 200,000 miles, I'll refresh everything again and go back to just enjoying the car without worry.

Currently doing the same treatment on a Land Cruiser, which is probably generally considered to be the most reliable car ever made? Still doing valve cover gaskets, radiator, thermostat, water pump, piping, timing belt, accessory belt, idlers, tensioners, alternator, front upper control arms, steering rack, lower front control arms, front half shafts, all 5 rear control arms, all sway mounts, all sway end links, rebuilding the ABS system, spark plugs, coils, tie rods, etc. But, like the M3, I expect to drive it like a new car for 100,000 miles after that with little to zero issues.

I don't know what dollar value experience the M3 is, but I have yet to drive any car that I prefer, at any price point. Have driven a fair variety of cars, from Miata (don't fit well at 6'4, and the engine is uncharismatic and buzzy) to Carrara GT (too fast to actually push, too expensive to actually drive, to impractical to actually use). The e46 M3 is the best combination of them all, for my wants. The steering is great, the engine is charismatic, the engine has enough torque to not be annoying while DDing, the engine had enough revs/HP to be rewarding to push hard, the car isn't too fast to actually push hard, the car isn't so slow as to be annoying, it's manual, the back seat makes it useable for all sorts of things a 2 seats never can be (tires to the track, family use), the trunk is surprisingly huge, the car is pretty small on the outside, the sight lines are great, it's easy to work on, the community support is world class, it has good rust proofing, and 6'4 me can drive it with a helmet on. Assigning a value to an experience is a weird concept, but I can't think of a car I'd put a higher value on for my wants.