Ownership Experience of Old BMWs

[tnord]

Maybe it's just me that's interested, but there seems to have been a number of tangential discussions in various threads about the challenges of owning old BMWs. This is rapidly affecting our specific platform, with parts rapidly increasing in price if they're available at all. But still, there are people out there that do it with platforms older than ours.

My rational brain will probably prevent me from actually doing it, but I have an interest in acquiring and keeping an older car or two over the long term. This thread is meant for discussion of any and all models of BMWs, which generations that may be holding up well and are well supported, places to source parts, which ones are fair values as drivers rather than warehouse decorations, etc.

In the BaT thread I derailed the discussion onto E39 M5s, which multiple people discouraged me from pursuing because they're going through the same challenge in their lifecycle that our E46M3s are. I posed the question if over the long term that the non-M cars actually make the best models to own because their were so many more of them produced and parts will be more broadly available.

I'm also interested in what people's experience with BMW classic is. How big of an operation is that within BMW? How much flexibility do they have to be responsive to feedback from owners (or BMWCCA)?

E24/E28 are another model that are always catching my eye, but as they're even older I wonder what it's like to own one of those. At heart, I guess I'm just the last of the GenXers 80s/90s kid that wants to drive my car from the 80s listening to Depeche Mode and New Order.

who wouldn't want to roll in one of these?

[DJAM3]

I can't answer your other questions but I'd love to pick up a E24 one of these days.

[Bimma360]

What the e46 platform is going through, has been the story of my life when it comes to cars. I bought my first E30 in 2003 during my freshman year in college. And I daily drove e30's all the way until 2013. In 2013 I bought an e36 M3 and daily drove that until 2019. Bought an e53 X5 4.8is in 2019, and daily drove that through 2023. Both with the e30 and e36 I lived through the transition of -- you can get just about anything, to things are super rare and/or expensive. Knew what was coming for the e53, but don't care about SUVs enough to go through it, so I bought a brand new car for fam duties.

So when I do read on this forum, people lamenting at where the e46 chassis currently is in this respect I think... "oh I remember my first beer."

Now I have the e46, and I think the car is special enough to go through this process again. But after doing it for over 20 years, this process is solely reserved for what I deem special. My answer to all of this is, don't worry about it. The aftermarket will provide. And as long as you have figured out what $$ figure all this is worth to you just spend the money to keep the car on the road the way you like it, and enjoy.

To your other question. I am over e30's. The chassis is too much of a wet noodle for me now. I haven't drive an e28 since high school but I do imagine the chassis is a lot better engineered than the e30. I think I could still find myself enjoying that. And the non M 535i's can be really good modified too. I wouldn't have M envy in the slightest. The one I drove in high school was my friend's father's car, and it was a Dinan 5. Stroked out M30 with a bunch of Dinan suspension work. That thing was so cool. I'd love one, and would buy one without even dwelling on the cost or parts availability in the slightest haha. Who cares. Sometimes you just need to put in extra effort to enjoy the things worth enjoying.

[EthanolTurbo]

I think this about sums up the ownership experience

[tnord]

What the e46 platform is going through, has been the story of my life when it comes to cars. I bought my first E30 in 2003 during my freshman year in college. And I daily drove e30's all the way until 2013. In 2013 I bought an e36 M3 and daily drove that until 2019. Bought an e53 X5 4.8is in 2019, and daily drove that through 2023. Both with the e30 and e36 I lived through the transition of -- you can get just about anything, to things are super rare and/or expensive. Knew what was coming for the e53, but don't care about SUVs enough to go through it, so I bought a brand new car for fam duties.

So when I do read on this forum, people lamenting at where the e46 chassis currently is in this respect I think... "oh I remember my first beer."

Now I have the e46, and I think the car is special enough to go through this process again. But after doing it for over 20 years, this process is solely reserved for what I deem special. My answer to all of this is, don't worry about it. The aftermarket will provide. And as long as you have figured out what $$ figure all this is worth to you just spend the money to keep the car on the road the way you like it, and enjoy.

To your other question. I am over e30's. The chassis is too much of a wet noodle for me now. I haven't drive an e28 since high school but I do imagine the chassis is a lot better engineered than the e30. I think I could still find myself enjoying that. And the non M 535i's can be really good modified too. I wouldn't have M envy in the slightest. The one I drove in high school was my friend's father's car, and it was a Dinan 5. Stroked out M30 with a bunch of Dinan suspension work. That thing was so cool. I'd love one, and would buy one without even dwelling on the cost or parts availability in the slightest haha. Who cares. Sometimes you just need to put in extra effort to enjoy the things worth enjoying.

Did the e30 chassis "wear out" as it aged and developed too much flex, or did your tolerance for it change? was yours an M or a regular 325? what are your thoughts on aftermarket support for old cars going forward? I feel like there's less of one now, or at least it has shifted upmarket and to newer cars as regular people get priced out of the hobby. remember bavarian autosport? they seemed to have everything for every car no matter the age. I wonder if we're going to have to go back to leaning on local mechanics and fab shops.

Did you ever run into a situation where you really had no readily available solution for a repair with the E30? how often were things failing?

I have similar thoughts about getting a long-term-old-car of the non-M variety. A slightly modified "regular" car would be enough to keep me happy. I would really miss the extra 1k revs of the S62, but put a decent exhaust and PSS10s with some style 66s or BBS LMs on an E39 540 and it's good enough for me. Or what I think might really be the sweet spot is an S52 swap into an E34 since the S52 isn't your typical S series motor.

[Bimma360]

Did the e30 chassis "wear out" as it aged and developed too much flex, or did your tolerance for it change? was yours an M or a regular 325? what are your thoughts on aftermarket support for old cars going forward? I feel like there's less of one now, or at least it has shifted upmarket and to newer cars as regular people get priced out of the hobby. remember bavarian autosport? they seemed to have everything for every car no matter the age. I wonder if we're going to have to go back to leaning on local mechanics and fab shops.

Did you ever run into a situation where you really had no readily available solution for a repair with the E30? how often were things failing?

I have similar thoughts about getting a long-term-old-car of the non-M variety. A slightly modified "regular" car would be enough to keep me happy. I would really miss the extra 1k revs of the S62, but put a decent exhaust and PSS10s with some style 66s or BBS LMs on an E39 540 and it's good enough for me. Or what I think might really be the sweet spot is an S52 swap into an E34 since the S52 isn't your typical S series motor.

My tolerance for the e30 changed after I got used to the e36. I don't believe the chassis wore out, I owned 3 of them and everyone was the same. For example, you can't open the door if the car is jacked up on one corner. The dynamics of the car we designed around that. It's a very fun car to drive, but once you are used to a stiffer car the e30 feels like a little bit of a death trap haha. To me at least. I have only ever owned the regular 325i. I don't think the M's are worth the premium for a really good one.

It has been a while since I shopped e30 stuff, but I would be surprised if it has diminished to a state of non-existence. Something I have always done when thinking of different cars is hop on the usual sites, and see what they offer for the typical stuff: Brakes, suspension, bushings, engine accessories, etc. In 2013, the last time I owned an E30 I never had issues finding parts to repair it. Like any BMW, if you were on top of preventative maintenance, this thing ran forever. My first e30 had 287k miles and was in wonderful shape apart from eating oil. Yeah E34 and E39 are great options. Though I feel with more electronics, you have more things to fix.

[digger]

i would imagine that an e24/e28 that parts are an issue, i wouldnt buy anything that was relatively low volume

[repoman89]

I think that at least re: E39 you’re overthinking it a bit. If you have the money, time and patience to sort the car out, go for it! You’ll be able to get everything you need despite the complaints, and all things considered it’s not that expensive against the typical decent new car, and it will be a lot more satisfying. Skip the 540, clean manual 530i sport if you must but a good M5 will be easier to find.

IMO, get one with the full leather interior in good condition, it really sets it apart.

[Tbonem3]

We also don't HAVE to restore them so thoroughly to just enjoy them. Very little of what I've spent on my car was necessary outside of fluids/filters/tires.

[Bimma360]

i would imagine that an e24/e28 that parts are an issue, i wouldnt buy anything that was relatively low volume

You still have your e30 right? Can't be that bad!

For selfish reasons I got curious about the e28 and I hopped on FCP searching for an '87 535i. Went category by category, and it doesn't look like slim pickings. Everything in stock, and lots of Genuine BMW options too. Nothing that would shy me away. Hell you can still buy Genuine BMW springs and shocks if you wanted. Haha also sooooo much cheaper than e46 M3 stuff haha.

Looks like a few of the OG vendors offer some performance engine stuff too.

https://bimmerheads.com/collections/m30-engine

https://www.iemotorsport.com/product/stroker-crankshaft-m30/

[Sharocks]

E39 M5's are pretty bad with not many being made, most of the parts cars being bought by Albanians and fixed, and BMW not supporting older cars.

I know a lot of people with E34's, E21's and E30's that basically buy parts cars as backups no matter the engine.

Porsche doesn't have this problem because they like making money the easy way.

BMW on the other hand, well lets say they're more preoccupied with folks buying the new X5 instead.

[PSUEng]

E39 M5's are pretty bad with not many being made, most of the parts cars being bought by Albanians and fixed, and BMW not supporting older cars.

I know a lot of people with E34's, E21's and E30's that basically buy parts cars as backups no matter the engine.

Porsche doesn't have this problem because they like making money the easy way.

BMW on the other hand, well lets say they're more preoccupied with folks buying the new X5 instead.

I bought a 2026 X5 last year and from the looks of the 2027, I made a good decision. It's great for a modern vehicle and replaces an older Lexus. But your point is good, BMW seems focused on new sales and not legacy (M) model support like other makers seem to be. Having owned my E46 M3 since 2007 and in the last few years restoring quite a bit before prices exploded, I'd say to get into one now needs some deep pockets, patience and access to resources to perform repairs. To what degree, I guess it's dependent upon the goals of the owner (restoration, track, DD...)

[usdmej]

Two factors driving up prices imo

More modern day enthusiasts are attempting to get/stay in the game with these older cars thanks to the increase in accessible resources (forums and YouTube for diys, specialty shops becoming more commonplace etc)


Also bmw seems to be using some aggressive pricing algorithms for parts that are made in small batches. Like it or not if they're making 100 windshield cowls at a time and they're selling out before they can even get stocked they're just gonna keep jacking up the price until some start sitting on shelves

[tnord]

We also don't HAVE to restore them so thoroughly to just enjoy them. Very little of what I've spent on my car was necessary outside of fluids/filters/tires.

I think this is a good point. Depending on what you want out of the platform; a driver, a garage ornament, or a restorable project, impacts how easy the ownership experience is. Primarily, I would want a driver example. Something that's relatively feasible to keep in good running condition, making reliability and availability/affordability of parts a factor, but I don't need to replace every bit and bob with an OE part. Somebody that wants to fully restore a car will have a harder time.

While I'm constantly trying to find little things to improve on my M3, it's definitely a cosmetically imperfect, not restored, driver. And I would be perfectly happy with a vintage BMW of similar condition.

Also, I got the same email from BMW about the new X5, and I'm also very glad we bought a 2025 when the moronic tariffs were announced.

[digger]

You still have your e30 right? Can't be that bad!

For selfish reasons I got curious about the e28 and I hopped on FCP searching for an '87 535i. Went category by category, and it doesn't look like slim pickings. Everything in stock, and lots of Genuine BMW options too. Nothing that would shy me away. Hell you can still buy Genuine BMW springs and shocks if you wanted. Haha also sooooo much cheaper than e46 M3 stuff haha.

Looks like a few of the OG vendors offer some performance engine stuff too.

https://bimmerheads.com/collections/m30-engine

https://www.iemotorsport.com/product...rankshaft-m30/

i do and an 96 E36 M3 euro. But they sold alot of E30's 2,000,000 but only around 70,000 e24 so about 3% so the market for new and used parts is totally different kettle of fish