Dilemma: Keep M3 or 911 (sad story)

[Obioban]

Tesla just went Level 4 in Texas.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaFSD/comments/1tsr48v/tesla_selfcertifies_level_4_autonomous_vehicles/

Their system is honestly astoundingly good these days. If you're basing what you think FSD is on something you experienced in a Tesla 6 months ago, your opinion is vastly out of date.

[9kracing]

You still need to be in the drivers seat, and be looking straight ahead... the car watches you. You also have to touch the wheel every so often. This is called "level 3"

Level 4 would be you in the backseat, and the car just driving you home. San Francisco currently has level 4 cars, but only for certain companies, no individual vehicles are permited.

[lcrain]

Once real autonomous full self driving becomes a thing, I might buy one just to haul the family around to Chilis and shit. The idea of slamming down a few margaritas and having the car drive us home has merit, believe me.

Not paying attention and letting the car deal with Bay Area traffic while we chill in the backseat watching movies? OK, now you have my attention.

I just don't know if CA will ever let that shit actually happen.

I have not driven or ridden in one but I believe we are there.

IDK if Texas is different than CA on the self-driving rules but I was at a business dinner the other night and a client mentioned he sold his raptor for new tesla purely so it could drive his drunk ass home while he watched movies. He cares nothing about the environment, doesn't care about how it looks. Just bought it for the self driving.

[02_lsb]

Different strokes, I get it. I, however, love the new M stuff, just as much as some of the old. I am here for all of it. Stickers or not, haha. I used to be a curmudgeon about the new stuff, having driven old manual BMWs exclusively my entire driving life. But the X3M changed my mind.

We’re a road trip family, so electric cars are not in my near future for family use. I am very interested in seeing what the new all electric M3 ends up being though. I’ll still buy the ICE version though (if they make a wagon).

Flying > driving.

just saying 😀

[Obioban]

Once real autonomous full self driving becomes a thing, I might buy one just to haul the family around to Chilis and shit. The idea of slamming down a few margaritas and having the car drive us home has merit, believe me.

Not paying attention and letting the car deal with Bay Area traffic while we chill in the backseat watching movies? OK, now you have my attention.

I just don't know if CA will ever let that shit actually happen.

It's pretty legit in Tesla's these days. My dad has an issue with falling asleep when he doesn't mean to, so very possibly an actual life saver for him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmV_mBA1w3g

[9kracing]

Once real autonomous full self driving becomes a thing, I might buy one just to haul the family around to Chilis and shit. The idea of slamming down a few margaritas and having the car drive us home has merit, believe me.

Not paying attention and letting the car deal with Bay Area traffic while we chill in the backseat watching movies? OK, now you have my attention.

I just don't know if CA will ever let that shit actually happen.

[Obioban]

If I were to give up on driving experience and buy a modern car, it would be an EV.

I have not driven a modern car I didn't hate the experience of. EPS, turbos, automatic, awd, heavy-- these aren't things I want in my life. If I'm going to give up on a good driving experience and long term upkeep (serviceability), I'd go for the zero upkeep, zero fuel stops, near zero fuel costs version. Lucid makes the best engineered version of that, but they can't seem to produce it in a reliable way and they'll likely be bankrupt soon, anyway. Tesla makes the 2nd best engineered version and have, at this point, figure out how to produce a car. That's likely the route I'd take.

Defining "best engineered" as...
1) the ratio of interior space to exterior size (where the traditional auto makers with the hybrid chassis designs get trounced)
2) the distance traveled per kwh consumed.

I do understand the allure. When my commute was 105 miles/day, I went the EV route myself (i3, which IMO remains one of the best engineered EVs, but no longer exists). But, I moved and changed jobs to change that situation, and now my commute is 16 miles per/day of most country back road bombing, so now I want driving experience.

... part of me does miss that 2700 lb, rwd, carbon monocoque, super low CoG, instant "throttle" response, hatchback. But, that was a technological oddity that likely won't ever exist again.

[Bimma360]

@Bimma360

while I’m sure an x3m is an excellent vehicle, having owned multiple bmws through the years and now living with two old m cars… bmw is now in a sticker business. The other day I was at a light behind a convertible, four wheel drive, competition package m4. WTF is that? At some point, it makes no difference how many m stickers, turbos or other nonsense you can slap on these cars. It’s just silly.

for daily, I have a semi-regular commute, I charge at home. My daily is faster than 99% of the cars on the road and requires effectively no upkeep. BMW EVs are not for me, yet. They’re a bit behind, however I think that is about to change.

Different strokes, I get it. I, however, love the new M stuff, just as much as some of the old. I am here for all of it. Stickers or not, haha. I used to be a curmudgeon about the new stuff, having driven old manual BMWs exclusively my entire driving life. But the X3M changed my mind.

We’re a road trip family, so electric cars are not in my near future for family use. I am very interested in seeing what the new all electric M3 ends up being though. I’ll still buy the ICE version though (if they make a wagon).

[02_lsb]

@Bimma360

while I’m sure an x3m is an excellent vehicle, having owned multiple bmws through the years and now living with two old m cars… bmw is now in a sticker business. The other day I was at a light behind a convertible, four wheel drive, competition package m4. WTF is that? At some point, it makes no difference how many m stickers, turbos or other nonsense you can slap on these cars. It’s just silly.

for daily, I have a semi-regular commute, I charge at home. My daily is faster than 99% of the cars on the road and requires effectively no upkeep. BMW EVs are not for me, yet. They’re a bit behind, however I think that is about to change.

[terra]

"I am not that into ICE cars, especially old ICE cars anymore. I love them, but driving them can get fatiguing. Also the sacrifices I have to make just aren't worth it at this point in my life. I just want to be unburdened by the things associated with ICE, old cars, and material objects that hold value that I may want to get out of at some point. I just want to get from point A to point B, and be comfortable in something disposable. I don't have the urge to make mundane tasks an event. In fact I much prefer a simple, worry free experience. It's not fun for me to worry about dents, scratches, pot holes, and the costs associated with those types of things, and it actually makes the driving experience worse for me." The variable here is the conclusion: [1] Having "fun" with cars is really good enough for me like once a month, or [2] the track if I am a track person, or [3] I really do like cars but I am just not into that stuff like I used to be and [4] frankly, I am out.

I think that's about where I'm at as far as daily drivers go. Fast, comfortable, and reliable is about what I want there, and EVs are pretty good at that (currently daily an i5 M60). The days I'm working are 12 hour days with an all highway commute. Highway cruiser is what I want there

[1] and [3] are about where I'm at overall when it comes to fun cars. There's the additional wrinkle of a fun car needing to be manual, and options to that end being rather limited nowadays.

[Hammerfang]

Quick update: architect is drawing up plans to allow for a bendpak 7k pound narrow lift. Hoping to get it in before the cold comes.

Side note: the Tesla hate is funny, not surprising and somewhat warranted. However, I bet it’s coming from people who have never had one. I’ve put 40k miles on mine without any issues and $0 on maintenance. Can’t do that with an ICE car.

[9kracing]

lol I'm just giving him a hard time, but yeah, this forum skews pretty hard towards "we hate EVs" 😂

[Keith_MN]

Sell the Tesla and reclaim your soul.

[Bimma360]

+1 on Tesla and EVs in general. Love it for daily use.

Most modern cars are automatic, so unless you define service visits, fuel stops or chasing fluid leaks as fun - kind of pointless.

I do actually, haha, truthfully. I drive my X3M in manual mode 100% of the time with every setting jacked up to the most aggressive state, unless I am on the highway during a road trip (which excludes just about all EVs anyway). It's a Dinan point car, so it's slightly modified. It's way too fast for the street, faster than most EV's actually, except for a few performance models that I have yet to encounter haha. It makes pops and bangs, and all sorts of loud noises when I shift. I shift it and run through gears every single time. I engine brake, and downshift through all the gears when I am coming to a stop. For a "boring" modern tech filled car, that I am actually not even in love with (its an suv), I have a good time dropping my kid at school, going to the grocery store, getting gas, AND taking it in for service visits. It gives me the ability to make any drive, regardless of its purpose, somewhat of an event.

Funny thing about service visits, they have allowed me to experience full plug in BMW EVs for several days at a time. I have had good seat time in both an i4 and one of the new gen i5's. EV's are awesome appliances. My personal biggest takeaway from driving an EV is that listening to music in the car is sooooo much better. Not having the constant vibration and hum of an ICE, makes for a better more relaxed lounging experience. It's a really nice place to be. I like it. But I don't need/want my everyday drives to be a lounging experience. I want to drive the most fun car I can all the time. Also such is my life currently, that I don't get fatigued by it.

We all make sacrifices based on priority. Some prioritize fun over comfort, and others the opposite. Nothin wrong with that. But, and here comes the part that may ruffle some feathers, the "kind of pointless" sounds more like trying to justify the latter. You can file that along with, "I don't have time to drive it." What most are actually saying, or in some cases outright saying:

"I am not that into ICE cars, especially old ICE cars anymore. I love them, but driving them can get fatiguing. Also the sacrifices I have to make just aren't worth it at this point in my life. I just want to be unburdened by the things associated with ICE, old cars, and material objects that hold value that I may want to get out of at some point. I just want to get from point A to point B, and be comfortable in something disposable. I don't have the urge to make mundane tasks an event. In fact I much prefer a simple, worry free experience. It's not fun for me to worry about dents, scratches, pot holes, and the costs associated with those types of things, and it actually makes the driving experience worse for me." The variable here is the conclusion: [1] Having "fun" with cars is really good enough for me like once a month, or [2] the track if I am a track person, or [3] I really do like cars but I am just not into that stuff like I used to be and [4] frankly, I am out.

Sorry for the wall of text.

[02_lsb]

+1 on Tesla and EVs in general. Love it for daily use.

Most modern cars are automatic, so unless you define service visits, fuel stops or chasing fluid leaks as fun - kind of pointless.