Vincebar vs. CMP Topside Reinforcement

[George Hill]

Beyond that, what are you gaining over the stock subframe bushings, which have a pretty proven out 200,000 mile service life.

IMO there's only two subframe bushing options that make sense:
1) stock
2) CMP solid (which raise the subframe, correctly the suspension geometry lost from lowering the car and/or adding reenforcement plates).

Stock subframe bushings as a general rule do no last to 200k miles from what I've seen come through my shop. I do agree with you on your replacement bushing choices though, that is the shops preference as well.

[ZHPizza]

Those look to be an e36 part...

Oops fixed it

[Obioban]

There's also these solid aluminum mounts that have removable spacers to account for plates. I have them in the garage waiting to go back in with the subframe.

https://store.partsshopmax.com/shop/...is/E36SFR.html

Those look to be an e36 part...

[Johnvu]

OMG truth. I bought the cheapest rivet gun I could find at Harbour Freight, my friend and I took turns so the other could rest. If you have some scrap pipe laying around you could put those over the handles for more leverage.

Another thing I would definitely do is get an epoxy gun and a few mixing tubes, I was able to borrow one from work. The tubes mix the epoxy in the exact ratio needed and are much cleaner than you messing about squeezing it out by hand onto a plate and mixing it with a popsicle.

haha same here! I had a similar if not the same gun lol.

I also ordered a 3M epoxy gun from eBay that came with a bunch of extra mixer tubes, which are also a definite must for this project.

[ZHPizza]

^I agree with most of the above, but I'd skip the power flexsubframe bushings. Since 2017 isn't enough time to prove them out, and before that they had a 17 year history of failure. Beyond that, what are you gaining over the stock subframe bushings, which have a pretty proven out 200,000 mile service life.

IMO there's only two subframe bushing options that make sense:
1) stock
2) CMP solid (which raise the subframe, correctly the suspension geometry lost from lowering the car and/or adding reenforcement plates).

There's also these solid aluminum mounts that have removable spacers to account for plates. I have them in the garage waiting to go back in with the subframe.

https://store.partsshopmax.com/shop/E36E46/BushingChassis/E46SFR.html

[Obioban]

^I agree with most of the above, but I'd skip the power flexsubframe bushings. Since 2017 isn't enough time to prove them out, and before that they had a 17 year history of failure. Beyond that, what are you gaining over the stock subframe bushings, which have a pretty proven out 200,000 mile service life.

IMO there's only two subframe bushing options that make sense:
1) stock
2) CMP solid (which raise the subframe, correctly the suspension geometry lost from lowering the car and/or adding reenforcement plates).

[R60BBA]

Imo the best set up for a road car is:

• Redish Motorsport plates
  • These are high quality and are also tried and tested. Redish themselves have not had any failures since installing these on cars since 2011.

• Vincebar + Gussets
  • The bar itself ties in the chassis rails and so relieves load from the RACP
  • The gussets address the front internal mig welds behind the rear bench which are generally the first point of failure (but are often missed by garages who offer these repairs)
  • Both bar and gussets are bolted to the subframe itself which ensures all 4 points are reinforced
  • The set up is not visible and so does not intrude boot space
  • The set up has been tried and tested since 2016 with no reported failures.

• Powerflex Yellow/Purple Subframe Bushes
  • Recommended by Redish Motorsport who as previously stated have not had any failures
  • The durometer of these bushes are spot on (70A/80A). They absorb the torque from the diff without transmitting it into the floor of the car
    • If the bushes are too soft then overtime this will exacerbate movement on the mounting points leading to cracking (like the stock ones do), however if they are too hard, you could also be reducing the life of the RACP as the floor is no longer cushioned by the likes of solid bushings.
  • Note there were reports of Powerflex Yellow Gen 1 bushes mushrooming, however there have been no reports of this since they were revised in 2017.

• OE (stock) Differential Bushes
  • These bushes do not transmit any extra NVH into the cabin unlike polybushes and are good for 80-100,000 miles
  • Note there are 3 bushes (and bolts) which should be replaced - (2 rears and 1 front). The rear bushes cannot be bought separately from BMW and so must be bought with the rear diff cover. If not done already, it may also be worth uprating your rear bolts as they were revised by BMW post-production following a PuMA case in 2007.

I have this exact set up on my car and confirm the rear end is much tighter upon hard acceleration, gear changes and cornering and recommend it to anyone who is seeking to reinforce their rear-end.

[ZHPizza]

I used this to install about 100 3/16" rivets with ease. It crapped out after that but I'm happy with the performance for the price. I'll order another one and be a little more cautious with it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083TDFXSP

[BMWahba]

Someone in Orlando pls help install vincebar lol


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[timmo]

Bar Epoxied and Riveted in place. **One huge suggestion is to get a pneumatic or assisted rivet gun. I almost crapped my pants getting those larger side rivets in place lol.

OMG truth. I bought the cheapest rivet gun I could find at Harbour Freight, my friend and I took turns so the other could rest. If you have some scrap pipe laying around you could put those over the handles for more leverage.

Another thing I would definitely do is get an epoxy gun and a few mixing tubes, I was able to borrow one from work. The tubes mix the epoxy in the exact ratio needed and are much cleaner than you messing about squeezing it out by hand onto a plate and mixing it with a popsicle.

[PipeUy]

What's vinces face book

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https://www.facebook.com/PPRnDnews

[Tones]

I did it myself in my garage. I used a bunch of images from Vince's facebook and other's that have done this to guide me through the process. As timmo said above, make sure you cover the interior of the car before grinding and whatnot.

I used some moving blankets from Harbor freight to make sure everything was properly covered while doing the grinding. The last thing I wanted was ruined interior. Here are some images throughout the process:

Bar Epoxied and Riveted in place. **One huge suggestion is to get a pneumatic or assisted rivet gun. I almost crapped my pants getting those larger side rivets in place lol.


This was when I was spraying all of the exposed areas with the Steel Grey matching paint. However, I used these types of moving blankets to cover my interior during grinding as well.


What it looked like after reinstalling the interior pieces. I love that it is back to stock and not noticeable!

What's vinces face book

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[Johnvu]

Did you do this yourself or have a shop do it for you?

I did it myself in my garage. I used a bunch of images from Vince's facebook and other's that have done this to guide me through the process. As timmo said above, make sure you cover the interior of the car before grinding and whatnot.

I used some moving blankets from Harbor freight to make sure everything was properly covered while doing the grinding. The last thing I wanted was ruined interior. Here are some images throughout the process:

Bar Epoxied and Riveted in place. **One huge suggestion is to get a pneumatic or assisted rivet gun. I almost crapped my pants getting those larger side rivets in place lol.


This was when I was spraying all of the exposed areas with the Steel Grey matching paint. However, I used these types of moving blankets to cover my interior during grinding as well.


What it looked like after reinstalling the interior pieces. I love that it is back to stock and not noticeable!

[timmo]

Did you do this yourself or have a shop do it for you?

If you do DIY this, do your best to cover as much of the interior as you can. I had a few old towels laying around but the cutting and grinding has pitted the inside of my windshield, and I have small craters in my headliner.

It's not too bad to do if you're handy with other DIY work on your car, I did it with a friend over a long weekend.

[nuc1]

Wait are we back to adehisve epoxy for the plates is okay? I'm out here in rural Hawaii and I don't trust any ones Craftmanship to be honest. Everyone just phones everything in here. So epoxy be great and I can do it my self.

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I did plates w/ epoxy and foamed both sides w/ BMW foam back in 2012/13 (can't remember exactly). I had my neighbor (underwater welder and dive shop owner) spot drill and weld the one crack I had. Cleaned up real good, did the epoxy and sealed. Then added the foam. Was under my car last week and no issues noted. I have a rivet/epoxy Vince bar kit sitting in the garage; haven't had the time to actually do it yet.

Mike