Vincebar vs. CMP Topside Reinforcement

[enjoy_m3]

I just finished my vincebar rivet kit. I had some failed spot welds so I had a welder fix spot welds, stitch weld the rear wheel well, and the racp on the trunk side as well as the joining panels on the bottom of the seat.
I put akg solid bushings. Just drove it this week, no noticeable nvh but the rear end feels a lot more rigid, kinda feels like I added a cage without it actually being there, lol. I documented some of it on my IG: enjoy_m3 if you wanted to see how it looks.

I did it myself with the exception of the welder I hired. You can do it yourself, just have the tools ready and it's worth having a quick jack if you plan to do it.

[LSBNick]

I went with the Epoxy/Rivet Vincebar method and I couldn't be happier! Everything went back to stock appearance but now the rear end feels rock solid.

Either solution will work and it seems like more personal preference at this point.

Did you do this yourself or have a shop do it for you?

[Johnvu]

I went with the Epoxy/Rivet Vincebar method and I couldn't be happier! Everything went back to stock appearance but now the rear end feels rock solid.

Either solution will work and it seems like more personal preference at this point.

[nagholdoian]

Currently doing the entire CMP kit at the moment on my M3. Couldn't be happier with the fit and finish as well as the remote support Cayn, the owner, has given me throughout the process. Going with either option will probably be fine. Regardless, I would say read through CMPs technical articles and repair those mentioned areas too while you're doing the subframe. I have a ton of photos of cracks and broken spot welds that were hiding behind the seam sealer and wouldn't know about them otherwise.

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[LeeForst]

I have a bunch of Araldite 2014 50ml brand new cartridges to sell anyone for less than I paid (have to look an see what that was)

[LSBNick]

Oh I have a full epoxy/rivet in kit in my garage that I'm not going to use (bar, front cups, rivets, epoxy, seam sealer, drill bits, hole saw, tap, etc). Been meaning to replace the drill bit that I broke to complete the kit again and list it for sale.

Note that I didn't not install it because I don't believe in it - I think the Vince kit is undoubtedly the best solution for those that want to maintain a completely normal trunk and/or don't want to mess with welding. I actually used it as a reference to make my own rivet/epoxy-in brackets that also work with the x brace from SMG Engineering. Shit got weird in my garage over the past few months.

Lmk when you’re ready to sell it please!

[ZHPizza]

Since Google is leaving me empty handed: where is the Vincebar actually available/for sale?

Oh I have a full epoxy/rivet in kit in my garage that I'm not going to use (bar, front cups, rivets, epoxy, seam sealer, drill bits, hole saw, tap, etc). Been meaning to replace the drill bit that I broke to complete the kit again and list it for sale.

Note that I didn't not install it because I don't believe in it - I think the Vince kit is undoubtedly the best solution for those that want to maintain a completely normal trunk and/or don't want to mess with welding. I actually used it as a reference to make my own rivet/epoxy-in brackets that also work with the x brace from SMG Engineering. Shit got weird in my garage over the past few months.

[Tones]

For underside plates, I believe Redish Motorsports out of the UK offer the best solution; based on their experience, I believe they said that ideally you would still want to do weld-in plates as the plug welds help coalesce the numerous RACP layers into a much sturdier singular structure. Doing the epoxy on the underside plates only bonds them to the outermost layer. Some may argue that the epoxy method reduces the likelihood of corrosion; welding, if done properly, should last a VERY long time, especially if your car is gonna be in the hot and dry southwestern states. Additionally, for most shops this is a tried and true method as they've been doing this for years now with plenty of experience. Only until recently have some started venturing into using epoxies for adhesion of automotive sheet metals.

Wait are we back to adehisve epoxy for the plates is okay? I'm out here in rural Hawaii and I don't trust any ones Craftmanship to be honest. Everyone just phones everything in here. So epoxy be great and I can do it my self.

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[aapilcher]

I had the CMP topside front and rear installed last fall, which I chose simply because it seemed beefier and I wanted a visual reminder where all my money went.

Here’s another alternative that I would consider, were I to do it over again:

https://www.s-m-eng.com

[Syfon]

I have the full CMP kit in mine. Plates, topside + frontside, 6 point race brace & solid aluminium subframe mounts.

The rear end isn't going anywhere!

I've lost a fair bit of boot space given I have the 6 point brace, however mine is a weekend toy, so boot (trunk for you yanks :P) space is not important for me.

I had the whole kit installed January 2019 and just got around to fitting the boot trim/carpet a few nights ago. With everything in place it looks quite nice tbh! Plus, the solid aluminium subframe mounts are perfect. I'm running oem rubber diff mounts so the nvh increase from the solid subframe mounts is negligible.

[Sprp85]

I had my full CMP top kit done by Matt @Coyne up in PA.

While CMP does not give you the stealth look, you dont really lose out on the trunk capacity. The bar does protrude from the floor by about an inch but other than the lost 1 inch height, the car still carries quite a lot of costco stuff when needed.

CMP, as long as its cleanly painted and carpeted nicely, it actually looks pretty good.

But either way, I would go with whichever is cheaper.

[Slideways]

Here's a customer video from Vince's facebook page:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm6s...mjpeBW3nqKFn24

at around 1:30, you can see the floor moving quite a bit before the reinforcements. at around 3:30, this is the movement of the floor after his kit is installed.

It looks like it does the job in that video. The Driftworks V10 build has had a bar across the two rear mounts but nothing on the front for a few years, and the top of the front right mount broke off as if it were being pulled down (3:30):

I guess upwards compression forces could cause that if the RACP layer which supports the top of the front right mount is weak enough to bend upward, then have the mount detach like that.

[2004LSB]

Here's a customer video from Vince's facebook page:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm6s...mjpeBW3nqKFn24

at around 1:30, you can see the floor moving quite a bit before the reinforcements. at around 3:30, this is the movement of the floor after his kit is installed.

[2004LSB]

I'm trying understand how the Vince cup reinforcement top plates will be enough to stop the right front internal RACP mount from detaching from the two layers of the RACP. The right front mount seems to be the most common failure point. With the Vincebar, only the two rear mounts are tied together with the frame rails. I'm not sure how strong that sloping section of the top RACP is to distribute the load from the right front subframe mount. The complete CMP topside reinforcement ties all four subframe mount points together from the top and also attaches all four points directly to the frame rails.

Back on the old M3forum, Vince explained in great detail the dynamic forces acting upon the RACP when the vehicle is being driven. In short, what happens is the front mounts experience a "compressive" force, while the back ones experience a "pulling" force. The rear subframe pushes up into the RACP on the front passenger side mount the most, while it pulls off of the RACP the most on the rear driver's side. So in essence, the cylindrical gusset cups in the front should do their job by providing greater vertical strength and dispersing it through a wider surface area. The back bar ties the rear mounts directly to the frame rails - - so in theory the system reinforces the mounting points enough so that it prevents the rear subframe from ripping off the RACP. It will still flex when driven hard, but reduced greatly and should in theory prevent complete failure.

[Slideways]

I'm trying understand how the Vince cup reinforcement top plates will be enough to stop the right front internal RACP mount from detaching from the two layers of the RACP. The right front mount seems to be the most common failure point. With the Vincebar, only the two rear mounts are tied together with the frame rails. I'm not sure how strong that sloping section of the top RACP is to distribute the load from the right front subframe mount. The complete CMP topside reinforcement ties all four subframe mount points together from the top and also attaches all four points directly to the frame rails.