The Story of the $5800 subframe job...

[genesis]

The shop was working on a T&M basis. Unless the shop disclosed this to the OP when providing the initial quote, these are two vastly different ways of charging a customer and creates a lot of confusion, or worse. Frankly, from the looks of the shop, their customer base probably doesn't balk at T&M work and will pay whatever is presented to them. Possibility because the customers know they are getting quality work and relationships have been built over the years. I don't know why the OP asked about how costs were looking when calling to ask when car would be complete.

Based on the original quote during my first conversation with the owner, I knew that the price could go up somewhat based on how much damage was found on the RACP. 2500 was supposed to be higher end of what it would cost to do the job. They've supposedly done several cars, so they should be already know the average number of hours it takes to do the job. Even at 2500, would repairing 2 cracks double the cost? Definitely not. I asked about the cost because, aside from the initial estimate, he twice never gave me an exact number, and I was planning to pay in cash.

[oceansize]

Now that you confirmed only plates and bushings were installed plus a couple of cracks repaired that shop was definitely trying to rip you off That is an absurd amount for this job.

[repoman89]

Bottom reinforcement with TMS plates and seam welding done by Vorshlag: $1300
Top reinforcement with CMP rear & front kit done by Coyne Performance: $2024, which included replacement of flex disk, CSB, and all the ball joints & bushings in the rear control arms.

If the reinforcement was done for bottom side only, oof, I would be furious as well... and no other parts were included in the job..

That’s a great price for the top side reinforcement install. I paid $4k for 40 hours in labor for the full underside and topside reinforcement (Redish + Vince bar) with fixed stitch welds and rust proofing, new bushings and all that. Also included diff seals and bushings all around in that particular job. It was done by what I consider to be the best shop in New England though so I have a lot of confidence in the work. You almost can’t even tell that the trunk floor was cut open, it’s so clean.

[old///MFanatic]

Yikes. In CA they have to give you a written quote before hand. And then get a phone (or written) consent for when the quote is going over said amount. For your exact reason.

This not only protect the client but also the shop. So no one gets surprises and then feels cheated (even after adjusting price).

[grannyknot]

Actually I'm not sure what you bitching about, the guy hands you a bill for $5800, you remind him of the previous quote he gave you, without skipping a beat, based on your word alone he drops the bill by $2600. That is still a bit more than the quote on the phone but we all know that a repair bill will always be higher than we think it's worth.
You also say that the guys knows what he is doing and did a good job for you, so where is the problem?
You got a good job for a little more than what you thought you would be paying and for this your recommending that this shop should be avoided at all costs?
I agree $5800 is ridiculous but there are a lot of garage owners that would say "Pay the bill or no keys" and you would have to pay that bill,
I've only met a couple of mechanics that didn't pad the bill.
The real lesson here is I think, you kept your wits about you, called his bluff or reminded him of his first quote and got away relatively unscathed.
You didn't get a "good " deal but you got good work, you're still ahead of the curve.

[oceansize]

Actually I'm not sure what you bitching about, the guy hands you a bill for $5800, you remind him of the previous quote he gave you, without skipping a beat, based on your word alone he drops the bill by $2600. That is still a bit more than the quote on the phone but we all know that a repair bill will always be higher than we think it's worth.
You also say that the guys knows what he is doing and did a good job for you, so where is the problem?
You got a good job for a little more than what you thought you would be paying and for this your recommending that this shop should be avoided at all costs?
I agree $5800 is ridiculous but there are a lot of garage owners that would say "Pay the bill or no keys" and you would have to pay that bill,
I've only met a couple of mechanics that didn't pad the bill.
The real lesson here is I think, you kept your wits about you, called his bluff or reminded him of his first quote and got away relatively unscathed.
You didn't get a "good " deal but you got good work, you're still ahead of the curve.

I think OP was also providing a warning to the rest of us and I'm sure those that live around him are glad he did. That is some shady crap and we all know it (assuming OP is telling the truth).

[old///MFanatic]

The real lesson here is I think, you kept your wits about you, called his bluff..

No I would not say he called his bluff, rather he called him out for overcharging from his discussed quote.

Any shop that fluctuates that much that easy really can’t be trusted for legit “pricing” in the future.

[yhp2009]

I agree $5800 is ridiculous but there are a lot of garage owners that would say "Pay the bill or no keys" and you would have to pay that bill,

That would be a poor business decision. Many specialty car communities are close knit and at the least well connected(word gets around fast). To arbitrarily bloat the bill to such exorbitant amount and then just drop it by half shows complete bullshittery. Trust is important because we care about the cars we own and knowing what happened to OP, I would not go there.

[R60BBA]

I honestly don't know. I assumed that the entire RACP would be inspected for any damage based on him telling me they'd done several before. They were supposed to provide me with photographs of the underside and all the work done, but I was so furious I ended the conversation and quickly left before I lost my temper.

Get the photos mate. You need to make sure it's been done properly.

[Mspir3d]

I started out with a quote for 800 to weld in some plates but once we got the subframe down it was very evident it was going to cost more. Not having reinforcement on a turbo car makes for a mess. It ended up at 3k iirc. I was there a couple times a week though as the shop is ran by a friend and they put in a ton of work.

[yhp2009]

I started out with a quote for 800 to weld in some plates but once we got the subframe down it was very evident it was going to cost more. Not having reinforcement on a turbo car makes for a mess. It ended up at 3k iirc. I was there a couple times a week though as the shop is ran by a friend and they put in a ton of work.

Yikes thats a big increase. But I think we can generally agree that bills can grow as long as its well communicated to the customer along the way. Its bad when there is no word on the change until the day you come to pick up your car.

[bigseatchris]

I think part of the issue is the quote several months ago, but also it sounds like you didn't get it in writing. But even then most quotes expire after a couple weeks. At least he matched the $2500 from his initial quote.
Unless the subframe bushings were included in the original quote, not sure why he needs to eat the bill for the extra work. I agree that he charged a lot, but it's a Porsche shop, which means it isn't going to be cheap.



I agree there is probably a bit of post-Covid tax, and that's starting to happen a lot more often.

We had to adjust our labor rates a little bit, but nowhere near that high. The winter is going to be tough once it starts to slow up a bit too. In Mass I believe estimates are expired after 30 days or so, so it is always a good idea to have a recent signed estimate in hand. It's awful that shops are taking advantage of customers this bad.

[Mspir3d]

Yikes thats a big increase. But I think we can generally agree that bills can grow as long as its well communicated to the customer along the way. Its bad when there is no word on the change until the day you come to pick up your car.

I agree they should update and ask if the customer wants to proceed. As soon my friend dropped the subframe down and we looked at the damage he told me he was going to need more money. He still curses me for that job.

[bigjae46]

Welding 2 cracks doesn't add many hours. Maybe 2 if they are kinda long? That price seems really high. I should start reinforcing E46s rear floors if that is the going price.

[SandeepM3]

Based on the original quote during my first conversation with the owner, I knew that the price could go up somewhat based on how much damage was found on the RACP. 2500 was supposed to be higher end of what it would cost to do the job. They've supposedly done several cars, so they should be already know the average number of hours it takes to do the job. Even at 2500, would repairing 2 cracks double the cost? Definitely not. I asked about the cost because, aside from the initial estimate, he twice never gave me an exact number, and I was planning to pay in cash.

Honestly if they are saying 2500 is on the high end of the scale if its really bad, with 2 cracks they shouldnt be even charging you that!