Timing s54 after vanos rebuild installation

[Cubieman]

From my understanding every two rotations to TDC gets the front cams at ~45°. Is that how the cams should be before following this procedure?

Assuming the VANOS unit gasket is one time use correct?

Yes, your cams make 1/2 revolution for every 1 revolution of the crank.

To set timing you must have TDC 1 (lock pin) and cam ~45° where the front most lobes sort of point at each other.

Beisan method kind of let's you "cheat" if final timing doesn't end up correct. But as others have said you really do need to pull vanos on each timing attempt.

The gasket is one time use however you might be just fine if vanos has been removed once or twice for timing work. Get your timing set up even it takes removing the vanos 10 times, then when you are all done pull vanos away from head and put your new gasket on.

The method of removing vanos and torqing the bolts works well. I used a method that maupineda suggested. You properly torque the bolts w/vanos of and use a pen to mark their location. So you have "torque marks" a mark on the bolt and a mark on the hub. It works, just make sure once you mark a bolt/hole you use that same bolt in the same hole.


I also used a tool that you can put on the torque wrench at a 90°angle that most certainly should get you closer than feeling it out by hand. I used the "torque marks" and when using this tool the marks lined up the same as when I torqued using a standard Socket.

[JokerElite]

Yeah, sounds like you're hitting valves. Be careful don't force it.

Like sapote said, you need to remove and reinstall the VANOS unit to achieve proper timing. Basic timing steps follow:

1. Set engine to TDC and lock crank in place
2. Remove VANOS unit and splined shafts
3. Loosen all hub bolts
4. Time camshafts with timing tool
5. Turn hubs fully clockwise and reinstall splined shafts
6. Tighten two opposing hub bolts per cam, then release 90°
7. Bolt VANOS unit back on fully (make sure to align oil pump)
8. Torque all the hub bolts
   • TIS says to use a crowsfoot on a torque wrench for this
   • An alternative is to tighten down all accessible bolts with a wrench (don't break them), remove the VANOS unit, torque with regular socket and then reinstall VANOS unit. Probably wise to save the new gasket for the final install of the unit.

This is by no means a comprehensive timing guide and it's totally possible that I forgot some detail(s). It's best to follow the Beisan instructions or TIS. But the point is that VANOS needs to come off and then go back on to properly time the engine.

From my understanding every two rotations to TDC gets the front cams at ~45°. Is that how the cams should be before following this procedure?

Assuming the VANOS unit gasket is one time use correct?

[JokerElite]

I don't use the Beisan procedure, so did you pretension the hubs with 2 bolts each, then bolting down the vanos module to turn the hubs CCW and then fully bolted down the hubs?


Obviously whenever the hub bolts were loosened and the cams were turned, the engine is out of timing and pistons will hit the valves. To avoid this, the hubs need to be pretensioned and the vanos module is bolted down to the head to rotate the hubs CCW to the precise locations (the correct timing position) then torque down the hubs bolts to lock them at the correct timing position.

Search for my posts on vanos timing and I think it will help you home.

Correct. I did it exactly as you described and also ensured the splined shafts fit on the easiest/first available hub splines.

It seems Beisan's guide for retiming needs to include removing the VANOS unit to truly "start from scratch".

[heinzboehmer]

Yeah, sounds like you're hitting valves. Be careful don't force it.

Like sapote said, you need to remove and reinstall the VANOS unit to achieve proper timing. Basic timing steps follow:

1. Set engine to TDC and lock crank in place
2. Remove VANOS unit and splined shafts
3. Loosen all hub bolts
4. Time camshafts with timing tool
5. Turn hubs fully clockwise and reinstall splined shafts
6. Tighten two opposing hub bolts per cam, then release 90°
7. Bolt VANOS unit back on fully (make sure to align oil pump)
8. Torque all the hub bolts
   • TIS says to use a crowsfoot on a torque wrench for this
   • An alternative is to tighten down all accessible bolts with a wrench (don't break them), remove the VANOS unit, torque with regular socket and then reinstall VANOS unit. Probably wise to save the new gasket for the final install of the unit.

This is by no means a comprehensive timing guide and it's totally possible that I forgot some detail(s). It's best to follow the Beisan instructions or TIS. But the point is that VANOS needs to come off and then go back on to properly time the engine.

[sapote]

I'm at the end of the VANOS Rattle Procedure guide on Beisan's website. I turned the crank clockwise a couple times to TDC, cams at ~45°, and I used the alignment bridge but the camshaft alignment holes were slightly off.

I don't use the Beisan procedure, so did you pretension the hubs with 2 bolts each, then bolting down the vanos module to turn the hubs CCW and then fully bolted down the hubs?

Then I loosened the remaining top 3 mounting bolts on the hubs. Next, I rotated the camshafts at hex until the alignment bridge dowel fit into each camshaft hole. Proceeded to evenly tighten the top 3 mounting bolts on the hubs. Removed the crankshaft locking pin. It then says to turn the crankshaft clockwise until TDC but mine seems to lock up 1/4 way through.

Obviously whenever the hub bolts were loosened and the cams were turned, the engine is out of timing and pistons will hit the valves. To avoid this, the hubs need to be pretensioned and the vanos module is bolted down to the head to rotate the hubs CCW to the precise locations (the correct timing position) then torque down the hubs bolts to lock them at the correct timing position.

Search for my posts on vanos timing and I think it will help you home.

[JokerElite]

I'm at the end of the VANOS Rattle Procedure guide on Beisan's website. I turned the crank clockwise a couple times to TDC, cams at ~45°, and I used the alignment bridge but the camshaft alignment holes were slightly off.

Now I'm trying to follow their "Adjustment of timing" section and became confused about the step others have mentioned, "Fully retard camshaft timing."

From my understanding, retarding the cams means turning the exhaust cam counter-clockwise until it stops? Is this necessary for my small adjustment?

For reference: http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm

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Update: I didn't retard the camshaft any further as the instructions say, "Note: Splined shaft can be seen protruding from sprocket hub front when camshaft is at adjustment end position." This was the case for me. Then I loosened the remaining top 3 mounting bolts on the hubs. Next, I rotated the camshafts at hex until the alignment bridge dowel fit into each camshaft hole. Proceeded to evenly tighten the top 3 mounting bolts on the hubs. Removed the crankshaft locking pin. It then says to turn the crankshaft clockwise until TDC but mine seems to lock up 1/4 way through. Anyone know what's causing this?

[sapote]

Looking at the photos... Is it me or shouldnt the exhaust hub be horizontal with the floor?


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There is no reason why the EX hub has to be at horizontal or vertical position at this point. It could be installed at any of the 6 possible positions as long as the pump disk is turned and aligned to the hub's 2 tabs.

[avusblue]

I guess I should mention the motor is on an engine stand


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[eacmen]

Looking at the photos... Is it me or shouldnt the exhaust hub be horizontal with the floor?


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[sapote]

That instruction is the final step after all 6 hub bolts are torqued so the cam should not turn independently. It should not cause tears.

Try it hard with the 24mm wrench standing next to the right fender for more leverage. Cams linked to crank not directly but via a few components: splines, hubs, radial roller bearing, pistons, cam sprocket, chain, chain guides, crank sprocket, crank lock pin. Total 9 parts. Are you saying there is zero clearance total between all 9 parts? I'm not talking about permanently shifting position, but it would slightly moved from it TDC if enough torque applied to the cam by 24mm wrench. Just enough for the pin to not line up to cam holes.

[mrgizmo04]

This instruction probably had caused so many unnecessary tears. Think about this: even with a brand new M3 just rolled out off the factory, a guy like Mike Tyson would be able to turn the cams CCW just enough for the bridge pin to not aligned with the cams holes.

That instruction is the final step after all 6 hub bolts are torqued so the cam should not turn independently. It should not cause tears. And as discussed at that point spline to front of vanos unit or piston end caps will limit how much the cam can be retarded.

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[sapote]

I basically follow this beisan instruction:

(crank at tdc with cam lobes pointing at each other, crank locking pin also in place)
Fully retard intake and exhaust camshafts.
For each camshaft, place open wrench (24mm combo wrench) on camshaft hex between cylinders 1 & 2 and turn camshaft counter clockwise to adjustment end position.
Note: Camshaft rotation is most effective when standing at exhaust side of car.
Note: Rock camshaft back and forth to release bind and allow rotation.
Note: Camshafts should already be in fully retarded position.

This instruction probably had caused so many unnecessary tears. Think about this: even with a brand new M3 just rolled out off the factory, a guy like Mike Tyson would be able to turn the cams CCW just enough for the bridge pin to not aligned with the cams holes.

[sapote]

I just couldn't get the alignment tool lined up after I fully retard the cams. I have tried adjusting the cams by loosening the hubs (after both cams fully retard), and was able to get the bridge to align perfect with crank at tdc, but after I tightened everything and spin the crank a few pass, fully retard the cams and the alignment bridge not lining up again, although I can get it to line up if I advance the cams a bit,

I see your confusion here.

I don't see why you need to turn the cams CCW to fully retard them before checking with the bridge pin, since this could move the cam slightly and causing the pin tool not aligned with the cams holes.

I guess the reason Beisan wanted to turn the cams CCW (if everything was done correctly the cams should not move at all in the process) to ensure that the 2 VANOS pistons are at their max forward position and stopped by the caps. However, if one had followed the steps correctly with pretension the hubs, then the hubs rotational friction is high enough to force the pistons to max forward position already (instead of the hubs rotated CCW) during the VANOS bolting to the head.

Here what you should do in the final timing check after everything was bolted down to spec: just turn the crank 4 turns (or 10 turns if you're so anal) to ensure that the rotating hubs splines action had pushed both pistons to their most forward, then stop the crank at TDC (if overshot then turn crank CCW passed TDC about 45 degrees, then turn CW to land it on TDC. The bridge pin should be aligned to the cams holes, (or it is off just a fraction of a degree and we can discuss about this.)

[avusblue]

Here’s a pic where I’m at






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[mrgizmo04]

Exhaust cam will only retard so much - until the spline moves out/forward (toward the front of the car) and spline front face hits the oil pump disc and/or the pistons in the vanos unit retract and bottom out against the end caps. It physically can not retard more as parts of the vanos unit start interfering (I am assuming timing is set correctly, yada yada).

To make the next engine restart easier, at engine shutdown, ecu advances exhaust side and retards intake side, this reduces pressure. That is why instructions tell you to only retard the exhaust cam.

Timing is checked when both cams are fully retarded, think of this position as "TDC" for vanos.

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