Dual Mass or Single Mass Flywheel

[Casa de Mesa]

I'm getting to the point where I need to pull the trigger soon on a clutch. Have 3 options I'm considering:

Option 1: The N54 Clutch conversion kit by Turner/ECS.
Option 2: Stock dual mass flywheel + non-self adjusting clutch. Something like the Sachs performance clutch or an ACT or whichever.
Option 3: All stock (DMF + SAC)

Does anyone have experience with either of the first 2 options? The N54 kit doesn't list a weight on the mass/flywheel, so not sure how light it is. But the description of "no rattling" has caught my attention.

Worst case, I'm going all stock per heinzboehmer's awesome write-up in this thread.

[Chas3n]

Single mass is fking awful for a street car.


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[Sid_E46]

I had a JB Racing lightweight aluminum flywheel and hated the chatter. Quality part and the way it revved so freely was amazing. I was wondering if my gearbox was extra wore out due to having a supercharger installed for ~90k miles. Maybe my short shifter kit added to the noise, I hadn't considered that. I'm about to list my flywheel and sprung clutch for sale.

I also used to have a JB racing flywheel and absolutely despised each mile it was on my car.

[cmitch1000]

I had a JB Racing lightweight aluminum flywheel and hated the chatter. Quality part and the way it revved so freely was amazing. I was wondering if my gearbox was extra wore out due to having a supercharger installed for ~90k miles. Maybe my short shifter kit added to the noise, I hadn't considered that. I'm about to list my flywheel and sprung clutch for sale.

[Casa de Mesa]

I'm with you - I had to take mine out a second time on the E92 as we misaligned the bolt holts. Guinea pig stuff ahah.

One time on a race weekend, I nuked the input shaft in practice. It was a righteous and sudden catastrophic failure midcorner 3rd gear at full throttle. Managed to save the car somehow despite the instantaneous oversteer. Awesome. Was towed back to pits, searched for and bought a spare tranny from someone, swapped them out. Made it to qualifying which was maybe 2.5 hours later. That sucked. I hate that job so bad, that might be why, ha

[Epoustouflant]

Thank you sir. Will keep an eye out on that.

I don't mind being a guinea pig for some things, I just hate that tranny job so bad, lol! Would like to extend the time intervals around pulling it as much as possible!

I'm with you - I had to take mine out a second time on the E92 as we misaligned the starter bolt hole. Guinea pig stuff ahah.

[Casa de Mesa]

Alex on IG here will be installing the 1st one in the US shortly I believe. He has an E39 M5 flywheel from TTV right next to it as well.

Thank you sir. Will keep an eye out on that.

I don't mind being a guinea pig for some things, I just hate that tranny job so bad, lol! Would like to extend the time intervals around pulling it as much as possible!

[Epoustouflant]

Funny enough, I was just on your site looking at that.

Do you know anyone that's running that in an E46 6MT?

Thanks again.

Alex on IG here will be installing the 1st one in the US shortly I believe. He has an E39 M5 flywheel from TTV right next to it as well.

[Epoustouflant]

Epoustouflant, if you get that flywheel for your E46 M3(if its 6 speed manual) and you say chatter/rattle is either none existing or very minimum, I would be seriously interested. I am 30lbs away from my target weight for E46 M3, was interested in driveshaft until that didn't work out and am still interested in this flywheel if its tested by someone with low noise tolerance.

The carbon driveshaft is back on the menu since I uncovered the MFactory saga. YFCM is sending an authentic V2 carbon driveshaft for the E46 M3 in February.

I will definitely keep you updated on both. I will fully refurbish the E46's rear end and drivetrain with new flywheel, clutch, driveshaft and most bushings at the rear subframe.

[pawa_k2001]

Epoustouflant, if you get that flywheel for your E46 M3(if its 6 speed manual) and you say chatter/rattle is either none existing or very minimum, I would be seriously interested. I am 30lbs away from my target weight for E46 M3, was interested in driveshaft until that didn't work out and am still interested in this flywheel if its tested by someone with low noise tolerance.

[Syfon]

Thanks for that very much. That's louder than the first vid I linked. You have a sprung clutch?

EDIT: the answer is yes.

Bare in mind I was next to a concrete wall so the rattle/chatter was somewhat amplified.

There's no getting around it; the rattle/chatter is somewhat loud. I don't mind the increase in NVH.

[Casa de Mesa]

I current have some form of aluminum flywheel with a race clutch and it's utter non-sense for a street car. Too stiff, too harsh - and the noises are absurd once the transmission is warm. It sounds like a pack of bolts got dropped in a blender. There's mid range lash as well.

Consider this. I have one that I will fit with a stock clutch in my E46 - that's what this specific one was engineered for. They are made in the UK and TTV is family run business mostly focused on Motorsport teams. @silver_gsr on Instagram has got one on his shelf and will do the install shortly.

They are machined from forged carbon steel and work with the OE clutch. I run one in my DCT E92 M3 and it's an awesome piece of kit. It's a vastly different application for sure as I have no throwout bearing in that transmission to rattle against. There is zero in gear lash noises nor whine induced with throttle inputs..

It's my understanding SMG cars are slightly favoured here as it manages the throwout bearing and keeps it constantly pulled, at-least it is the case on the SMG3 with the S85. This will drastically reduce rattles and eliminate the slipping engagement points that can be troublesome with lightweight flywheels in 1st gear.

I have posted an unedited video here. It's been vastly popular for V8s and I'm eager to see how they feel on the S54 and S85.

Funny enough, I was just on your site looking at that.

Do you know anyone that's running that in an E46 6MT?

I have an aluminum flywheel, sintered iron race clutch in a different car. I have never been able to explain the sound until now: "It sounds like a pack of bolts got dropped in a blender." Lol that's awesome

That other clutch is a race clutch and I expect a bit of racket. On the M3, I'm looking for some civility but don't care if it makes some noise. I just don't want a lot.

Will reply more later, pressed for time tonight but thanks for providing that detail and context. Very helpful. If it was easier to pull a clutch, I would not care and just roll the dice. But I hate dropping transmissions, especially on these cars.

Thanks again.

[Epoustouflant]

I current have some form of aluminum flywheel with a race clutch and it's utter non-sense for a street car. Too stiff, too harsh - and the noises are absurd once the transmission is warm. It sounds like a pack of bolts got dropped in a blender. There's mid range lash as well.

Consider this. I have one that I will fit with a stock clutch in my E46 - that's what this specific one was engineered for. They are made in the UK and TTV is family run business mostly focused on Motorsport teams. @silver_gsr on Instagram has got one on his shelf and will do the install shortly.

They are machined from forged carbon steel and work with the OE clutch. I run one in my DCT E92 M3 and it's an awesome piece of kit. It's a vastly different application for sure as I have no throwout bearing in that transmission to rattle against. There is zero in gear lash noises nor whine induced with throttle inputs..

It's my understanding SMG cars are slightly favoured here as it manages the throwout bearing and keeps it constantly pulled, at-least it is the case on the SMG3 with the S85. This will drastically reduce rattles and eliminate the slipping engagement points that can be troublesome with lightweight flywheels in 1st gear.

I have posted an unedited video here. It's been vastly popular for V8s and I'm eager to see how they feel on the S54 and S85.

[Casa de Mesa]

Here you go. Video of the rattle in macca's drivethru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R71m..._channel=Syfon

Thanks for that very much. That's louder than the first vid I linked. You have a sprung clutch?

EDIT: the answer is yes.

In reply to what clutch to pair with JB Racing Aluminium Lightweight Flyhweel - Phill @ Bimmerworld recommended the Clutchmasters FX100 (Sprung Hub). This is what I'll be installing.

[Mr.wReckless]

Solid subframe bushings don't make any appreciable noise and the majority of us have moved to solid subframe (and rtab) bushings for this reason, however solid diff bushings will noticeably increase diff whine within the cabin all day every day.

Thanks, think I meant solid bushes for the diff in my comparison.

Regards