Need help diagnosing problem after vanos update

[boadly]

What did you torque the hub bolts to?

Edit: nevermind I just saw you responded above.

Cam hub bolts were tightened to 12 Nm and exhaust hub bolts to 14 Nm.

[eacmen]

I don't agree with everything these guys do but it's a good visual aid alongside the Beisan procedures.

As the start of this video, the hub bolts are finger tight, crank is at tdc, and cams are aligned using the bridge.

https://youtu.be/_nMUCe7TD2o

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[heinzboehmer]

Like I said I can't move either cam more than a few millimeters with the hub bolts tightened even with the solenoid off.

What did you torque the hub bolts to?

Edit: nevermind I just saw you responded above.

[eacmen]

Ive found that you need to rock the cam back and forth to free it before fully retarding it to set timing. If you can't move the cam in either direction (advance or retard) with the hub bolts snug then something is too tight.

Need to make sure that the both piston rods in the vanos unit are fully pressed in (with caps ON).

Also need to make sure the hubs have minimal travel before the splined shaft is inserted.

Slop in the chain can cause some deviation but not 19deg.

Edited: changed loosened to snug.


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[boadly]

I don't know if this is just a random coincidence or if it might be related to my timing problem but when using my Schwaben tool now it shows the misfire counter is not active. As far as I know it had always been active and worked before. It's my understanding that misfires are detected with the crankshaft sensor. I replaced the crankshaft sensor a few months ago so I doubt it would be bad. However, I did try to check the crankshaft sensor using the same method as I did to check the camshaft sensor. That is, using a multimeter to see if the voltage dropped after moving a metal socket near the sensor. For the camshaft it was showing 5 volts which dropped to 0 when the metal was moved near the sensor. The crankshaft sensor showed 2.5 volts but didn't change when I moved the socket near the sensor. I also tried my old crankshaft sensor which was not defective when I removed it and got the same readings so I don't know if this method correctly identifies a bad crankshaft sensor.

[boadly]

One way to explain your problem is that you had set the timing correctly, but during engine running somehow the VANOS cannot move the EX cam to zero degree, such as the solenoid valve cannot release the pressure for piston to move back after the piston had advanced in previous cycle.

I believe what you said, but I hope it's just simply the timing was set wrong and didn't detect this during timing checking with bridge tool.

This is the first time I've done this and I don't consider myself to be a mechanic. I'm just a guy that likes tinkering with my car and learning to do things I feel comfortable trying. It's probably a higher degree of difficulty than the other things I've done to the car but I studied some DIYs and watched several videos so I felt comfortable at least attempting this. I also did a valve adjustment at the same time. That said, setting the timing doesn't seem that complicated considering I have the BMW timing tool and crank locking pin. Like I've said, I know when I closed everything up it was correctly timed to the extent that the pin slid into the timing tool with the engine locked at top dead center after rotating the crank several times.

[boadly]

I'm not sure 1 and 2 are in chronological order or just random. 2 should have been done before 1.

Re to 2, was the solenoid plate removed before trying to turn the cam with 24mm wrench? Removing the solenoid plate allowing the pistons to move forward easier with no built up pressure. The slope angle of the splines making it's easy to move the piston to rotate the cam but not the other way around. Therefore it's best to turn the cam after the piston shaft is disconnected from the spline shaft.

The error code says EX has 19* advance, but using the bridge tool it was confirmed correct timing. I have trouble seeing how can this happen. Since you had opened the valve cover multiple times after the first trial, did you use the bridge tool to verify the cams timing after engine running with EX = 19 at idle? It should show that the EX not lining up with the bridge pin. Was it about 19* ?

Like I said I can't move either cam more than a few millimeters with the hub bolts tightened even with the solenoid off. So with the crank locked at top dead center and the hub bolts loosened I would rotate the cams so they would perfectly align with my BMW timing tool. I then tightened the hub bolts and reinstalled the Vanos making sure the camshafts didn't move. After that, I rotated the crank multiple turns, locked the crank and checked the timing again. At that point I may have had to rotate the cams a millimeter or two to get the pins on the timing tool to slide in perfectly.

Yes, when I opened it back up you could see the timing was off.

[boadly]

it sounds to me the issue is in the assembly (as you did not have the issue before), or, either the solenoid pack or the valve block are giving you trouble (strange).

Your tests results indicate the timing is off though, but assuming you set all correctly, bad solenoids will make the system not reach the limits (you are off in your results)

What doesn't tie is that your exhaust leak test indicates the camshaft cannot hold the position, hence why I say you may have an issue with the valve block or the solenoid pack. What was the torque spec you used for the cam gears? if you went crazy tight, you locked the cam gears and the timing won't move, they should carry only 10-12NM, which is a low torque value. You should be able to advance/retard with the 24mm spanner, if not, you tightened the cam gears too much so that you locked them (especially if the system is free of oil, as it should, after taking the VANO apart), if you open it up again, remove the solenoid block and rock the cams with the 24mm spanner, this will push out oil in the system if still they don't move, you tightened the hell out of them.

It's a new rebuilt Beisan solenoid. I also tried my old solenoid and got the same results. I followed the Beisan instructions which called for 12nm. Even with the solenoid off and no oil pressure in the system I can’t rotate either cam.

[boadly]

Did you change solenoids?

How are you running the vanos tests with tool32? I thought only dis could do it.


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Yes, all new Beisan components including the solenoid. Yes, the test resuts in German from my intial post were done with Tool32.

[boadly]

It sounds like you installed it correctly. Do you get full range of motion on the exhaust splined shaft and is the first tooth engaged on that side with almost no exhaust hub rotation? Maybe try a stock exhaust hub to rule out the possibility of a tolerance issue.

Yes, I found the so called "sweet spot" which produced the least initial rotation of the hub. This is actually my second Beisan exhaust hub as I initially thought it might be causing my problem. I'll probably try putting my old hub back in just to make sure that's not the problem but I'm guessing it's not. I'm just getting tired of taking everything apart and putting it back together again.

[sapote]

One way to explain your problem is that you had set the timing correctly, but during engine running somehow the VANOS cannot move the EX cam to zero degree, such as the solenoid valve cannot release the pressure for piston to move back after the piston had advanced in previous cycle.

I believe what you said, but I hope it's just simply the timing was set wrong and didn't detect this during timing checking with bridge tool.

[sapote]

1) I've taken everything apart several times to check my timing. I have a BMW oem timing tool and crank locking pin. After putting the Vanos back together it was timed perfectly. I rotated the crankshaft probably 10 to 15 times and it was still correctly timed.

2) However, I could not retard the timing on either the intake or the exhaust cam. Other than maybe a few millimeters I couldn't rotate either cam in either direction using a 24mm wrench. I had to loosen all of the hub bolts to get the Vanos off as the exhaust spline shaft was all the way in the hub and couldn't be retarded out when the hub was bolted down.

I'm not sure 1 and 2 are in chronological order or just random. 2 should have been done before 1.

Re to 2, was the solenoid plate removed before trying to turn the cam with 24mm wrench? Removing the solenoid plate allowing the pistons to move forward easier with no built up pressure. The slope angle of the splines making it's easy to move the piston to rotate the cam but not the other way around. Therefore it's best to turn the cam after the piston shaft is disconnected from the spline shaft.

The error code says EX has 19* advance, but using the bridge tool it was confirmed correct timing. I have trouble seeing how can this happen. Since you had opened the valve cover multiple times after the first trial, did you use the bridge tool to verify the cams timing after engine running with EX = 19 at idle? It should show that the EX not lining up with the bridge pin. Was it about 19* ?

[maupineda]

it sounds to me the issue is in the assembly (as you did not have the issue before), or, either the solenoid pack or the valve block are giving you trouble (strange).

Your tests results indicate the timing is off though, but assuming you set all correctly, bad solenoids will make the system not reach the limits (you are off in your results)

What doesn't tie is that your exhaust leak test indicates the camshaft cannot hold the position, hence why I say you may have an issue with the valve block or the solenoid pack. What was the torque spec you used for the cam gears? if you went crazy tight, you locked the cam gears and the timing won't move, they should carry only 10-12NM, which is a low torque value. You should be able to advance/retard with the 24mm spanner, if not, you tightened the cam gears too much so that you locked them (especially if the system is free of oil, as it should, after taking the VANO apart), if you open it up again, remove the solenoid block and rock the cams with the 24mm spanner, this will push out oil in the system if still they don't move, you tightened the hell out of them.

[eacmen]

Did you change solenoids?

How are you running the vanos tests with tool32? I thought only dis could do it.


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[Slideways]

It sounds like you installed it correctly. Do you get full range of motion on the exhaust splined shaft and is the first tooth engaged on that side with almost no exhaust hub rotation? Maybe try a stock exhaust hub to rule out the possibility of a tolerance issue.