SMG vs SMG/6mt conversion value

[Gt4]

As per Hagerty, SMG cars worth 25% less than a factory 6mt car.

I was wondering what is the value of an E46 M3 with a 6mt conversion vs an SMG?

My friend has 2 E46 M3 ZCP, both SMG. He was willing to do the 6mt swap on the 71k miles ZCP but not on the other one cause it has only 30k miles on it and think it should stay SMG to keep it’s value cause stock/no mods.

My ZCP with 60k miles is SMG and I am doing the swap over the winter. To me, it won’t hurt resell value and I think if I sell it I will be able to sell it a tad higher to cover the 6mt conversion fees.

Curious to hear what others as to say on this subject.

[SpaceJockey]

It seems to me that prices for converted cars fall somewhere in the middle. I think they're worth more than SMG, and probably sell quicker, but they certainly aren't worth what an original 6mt is fetching. Quality of the conversion is a variable as well - oem parts, etc. I would guess around 15% less than a 6mt car.

[Icecream]

It seems to me that prices for converted cars fall somewhere in the middle. I think they're worth more than SMG, and probably sell quicker, but they certainly aren't worth what an original 6mt is fetching. Quality of the conversion is a variable as well - oem parts, etc. I would guess around 15% less than a 6mt car.

For collector grade cars sure. But for a daily/track fun car a 6spd is a 6 spd. An smg swapped 100k mile m3 vs a 100k mile 6spd really should go for about the same imo. But logic and reason usually doesn't prevail so there is that.

[George Hill]

Quality of the conversion is a variable as well - oem parts, etc. I would guess around 15% less than a 6mt car.

More and more DIY guys are doing these swaps and I see some really poor workmanship and parts selection. It is easy for me to say I would rather have a SMG car and convert it myself as I can do the work, but it's often what I tell clients who ask that same question of value in SMG vs Converter vs Original 6MT.

[oceansize]

There was one on BAT that sold. Conversion completed by Kaiv so you know it is correct. I think this car would have sold for roughly the same if left as an SMG so I don't believe it was worth it. The car was nicely modified.

2004 54k miles Alpine White on black. Carbon fiber roof, bilsteins, super sprint exhaust, OEM CSL trunk, AA headers, carbon fiber trim, etc.
Had this car been an original 6mt you can easily add another 5k to 10k.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-bmw-m3-coupe-64/

Edit: I should add that I don't think a conversion completed by a very well known competent shop/individual will diminish the value, but I also think any possible increase in value will be minimal. Exceptions always exist of course.

[Toby22]

For a nicely spec low mileage car, I’d say a swapped transmission would lower the value. Same if someone swapped out the smg in a CSL. The original spec would be preferred.

[Rich_lol]

Swapped my 37k mile m3. Don’t ever plan on selling it, so the value maybe moot. I view any mod to a car as negligible to increase its value.

But fair question for insurance purposes


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[///m325i]

I bought a low mileage smg car for literally thousands less than a manual car. I don't plan on ever selling this car so if I manual swap it I know it will be done right and I will have refreshed all the "while you're in there" parts. At least I know the transmission wasn't shifted like an animal either.

[m3nt0s]

A swapped car will likely fetch as much money as an equivalent SMG car except for rare circumstances. Getting any extra cash is just a bonus IMO, and a swap shouldn’t be performed as a “down the road” value proposition.

[cbean]

It seems to me that prices for converted cars fall somewhere in the middle. I think they're worth more than SMG, and probably sell quicker, but they certainly aren't worth what an original 6mt is fetching. Quality of the conversion is a variable as well - oem parts, etc. I would guess around 15% less than a 6mt car.

This seems about right from some of the shopping I have done . . .

"For a nicely spec low mileage car, I’d say a swapped transmission would lower the value. Same if someone swapped out the smg in a CSL. The original spec would be preferred."

Yes, I totally agree with this statement.

If it is a collector grade car the original spec is the preference, and any change devalues the car from my research.

It also seems like proof of a very reputable mechanic / shop doing the conversion will make all the difference.

The cost of the conversion seems to be the cost difference of SMG vs Manual, meaning I have priced out converting my SMG to what my car similar SPECS in a manual and it was the same price. Mine is a 2005 with 81K, far from a collector . . . but prices seem to be going crazy.

Currently, I am enjoying the SMG, but plan on converting next year from a well known mechanic Kaiv. But I am afraid my little legs will not fully engage the clutch

[wsybert]

The reason the SMG's are valued lower is because of the SMG stigma. Once converted, it is not an SMG anymore. The failure prone parts are gone and what BMW has in the 6MT spec cars, is now in that car.
Maybe to a purist, the value drops, but if you understand what is involved in a swap, you are getting a 6MT car in the end. All of what BMW intended to be there, is.

I agree the job has to be quality. I am finishing mine now, and used either BMW or OE equivalent where I could (which is most of it). I don't plan on selling.

I have seen swapped cars go for at or near 6MT prices. They were done well. This isn't an LSx swap and a T56.
I am also seeing SMG's prices rise, as people are understanding the swap possibility and/or that SMG's are fun to drive and not the bastards people portray them to be.
My $0.02

[ridebikes]

Based on what little I know of Porsche, non-factory installed parts done right (or paint) can be valued close, but never as high, as a factory equipped car. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see a plurality of SMGs converted to 6 speed as these cars enter the same stratosphere as air-cooled 911s and E30s. I think a lot of people will try to maximize their ability to flip them when a "normal" E46 M3 starts going for $30K-$40K (if current trends continue...). Just my two cents! Good topic.

[cbean]

"Based on what little I know of Porsche, non-factory installed parts done right (or paint) can be valued close, but never as high, as a factory equipped car."

Someone once schooled me in Porsche values ( could be wrong ), their lesson was there are a lot of after market ( mod ) items that add a lot of value to the car. I guess it is because of the expense of getting a few HP's out of that air cooled motor, and the high cost of Porsche mods?

Sorry, kinda hijacking the thread

I completely agree with wsybert comments.

Side note, please do not hate me

My SMG has not been as bad as everything I have read about it, I love the car and maybe that clouds my perception

[George Hill]

The reason the SMG's are valued lower is because of the SMG stigma. Once converted, it is not an SMG anymore. The failure prone parts are gone and what BMW has in the 6MT spec cars, is now in that car.
Maybe to a purist, the value drops, but if you understand what is involved in a swap, you are getting a 6MT car in the end. All of what BMW intended to be there, is.

This is the thing though, most people don't make a replica of a 6MT, they just remove the "failure" prone SMG parts and replace with manual components.

Very few people are installing the correct MT engine wiring harness, removing the SMG gear indicator in the cluster, removing the SMG wiring under the console, removing the hood switches, swapping the plenum for a MT box, installing a MT steering wheel, detent removed from throttle pedal, etc. Plus how was the wiring done, is it correct, is the gear position sensor installed, is it routed correctly, etc?

[oceansize]

This is the thing though, most people don't make a replica of a 6MT, they just remove the "failure" prone SMG parts and replace with manual components.

Very few people are installing the correct MT engine wiring harness, removing the SMG gear indicator in the cluster, removing the SMG wiring under the console, removing the hood switches, swapping the plenum for a MT box, installing a MT steering wheel, detent removed from throttle pedal, etc. Plus how was the wiring done, is it correct, is the gear position sensor installed, is it routed correctly, etc?

Yep, and most people looking at such a car don't even know what questions to ask. Not to mention the cost of a quality swap is damn high if you don't DIY and you pay someone such as yourself to do it correctly (you are worth every penny from what I can see).

People can rebuild an SMG pump (I did), replace the motor, and accumulator for far far less than a swap. Clutch slave is super simple and cheap. Actuator and compression springs start getting a little hairy if not DIY.