Cam questions for those who have installed or regularly perform custom tunes.

[RedM3/4]

Hi all, sorry if this is repetitive, I can't figure out a way to search and filter on what I'm trying to learn.
I'm strongly considering cams. I have Eventuri intake, CPI headers and SectionI, supersprint street muffler.
I'm not looking to change springs, retainers or make room for more lift, and I will not be raising RPM limit.

I can't even find a consistent answer on what CLS cams are, but they appear to be 288/280 @ 12.5 mm lift per Bimmerworld; Catcams has 288/280 @ 12.75 mm lift option, a bit more lift (thickness of a moderate quality business card, not the stiff thick ones in case anyone is wondering how much that 0.25mm is in practical terms).
Anything larger appears to require other changes to accommodate higher lift.
Catcams appear to also require some type of oil bridge and their lifters with alternate holes "to ensure oiling"; not sure what I think of that ...
My questions are:
1. Is there a loss midrange that is noticeable in moderately spirited driving? Midrange being more in the 3000-6000 rpm range than 4000-8000 range? I'm not worried about losing 5-7 ftlbs of torque until I get "on cam", but I don't want the car on it's face until I get there either.
2. Ignoring those that had follower or cam wear problems, does anyone regret installing cams? If so, what were the problems? Install time/cost versus improvements? Driveability? Other?

Thanks to anyone with real experience here!

ADS

[stash1]

-CSL cams are 268/264 and stock cams are 260/260 IIRC.
-288/280’s will pretty much make more power everywhere when paired w/the right mods/proper tune.
-No regrets/downsides as far as I’m concerned...there’s no decrease in reliability or driveability.

[Syfon]

Catcams appear to also require some type of oil bridge and their lifters with alternate holes "to ensure oiling"...

I have a stock valvetrain except CAT 280/272 cams. I also have the correct pressure relief valves for the cams.

This is the first I've read about a modified oil bridge for CAT cams. Can someone please educate me? What purpose does a modified oil bridge serve? Is it necessary for my build?

Apologies for somewhat thread-jacking, however I need to clarify this!

[terra]

Hi all, sorry if this is repetitive, I can't figure out a way to search and filter on what I'm trying to learn.
I'm strongly considering cams. I have Eventuri intake, CPI headers and SectionI, supersprint street muffler.
I'm not looking to change springs, retainers or make room for more lift, and I will not be raising RPM limit.

I can't even find a consistent answer on what CLS cams are, but they appear to be 288/280 @ 12.5 mm lift per Bimmerworld; Catcams has 288/280 @ 12.75 mm lift option, a bit more lift (thickness of a moderate quality business card, not the stiff thick ones in case anyone is wondering how much that 0.25mm is in practical terms).
Anything larger appears to require other changes to accommodate higher lift.
Catcams appear to also require some type of oil bridge and their lifters with alternate holes "to ensure oiling"; not sure what I think of that ...
My questions are:
1. Is there a loss midrange that is noticeable in moderately spirited driving? Midrange being more in the 3000-6000 rpm range than 4000-8000 range? I'm not worried about losing 5-7 ftlbs of torque until I get "on cam", but I don't want the car on it's face until I get there either.
2. Ignoring those that had follower or cam wear problems, does anyone regret installing cams? If so, what were the problems? Install time/cost versus improvements? Driveability? Other?

Thanks to anyone with real experience here!

ADS

I have schrick 288/280s with a Paul Claude tune (not dyno tuned) that I made some minor mods to. I would say the only area where there’s some possible power loss is sub-2500. Above that it pulls like a freight train. I suspect stepped headers would really add some value with these, but it’s hard for me to justify spending the kind of money I’d need for a catted SSV1 setup.

Install time isn’t bad. Basically took me a weekend afternoon taking my time. If you’ve ever done the beisan VANOS stuff, you’ve done like 90% of the work anyway.

Drivability is basically same as stock. You do need to tweak some idling parameters for the car not to stall when coming to a stop, but that’s pretty easy. Asides for making more power, no one would guess my car is cammed based on drivability.

[RedM3/4]

No worries, I'd like to know more too. I don't know if it's new policy because of some wear problems folks had (that to me look like cams weren't hardened properly, and I have metals and deep manufacturing engineering background). But I've seen some vids and they make mention of this on their site. They're followers have a smaller, redirected oil hole and they expect you to use them if you want any wear warranty if I understand it properly.
I'm up in the air on doing followers. I can look at mine and know if there's risk at one level, I get metal wear. But ... if it weren't such a bitch to get the rocker shafts out I'd probably do followers anyway as there will be some added initial wear in between two previously unmated parts, a little less if they're both virgin parts.
What are the pressure relief valves - end caps on the rocker shafts or ?

ADS

I have a stock valvetrain except CAT 280/272 cams. I also have the correct pressure relief valves for the cams.

This is the first I've read about a modified oil bridge for CAT cams. Can someone please educate me? What purpose does a modified oil bridge serve? Is it necessary for my build?

Apologies for somewhat thread-jacking, however I need to clarify this!

[RedM3/4]

Thanks!
My CPI headers are single stepped, not quite the power of the SSV1. I have a used CPI euro2004 with cats, but they've been drilled or burned out, smells catless. So far no loss down low, the intake really woke things up after headers, but biggest gains from my but dyno are 4000+ RPM.
I've not done a tune, I may do a build journal tune short term, but will do a Paul Claude or dyno tune after the cam decision.
Did you do new followers? One vid I saw it appears you have to take front end parts off to get the shafts out, what a PITA!

ADS

I have schrick 288/280s with a Paul Claude tune (not dyno tuned) that I made some minor mods to. I would say the only area where there’s some possible power loss is sub-2500. Above that it pulls like a freight train. I suspect stepped headers would really add some value with these, but it’s hard for me to justify spending the kind of money I’d need for a catted SSV1 setup.

Install time isn’t bad. Basically took me a weekend afternoon taking my time. If you’ve ever done the beisan VANOS stuff, you’ve done like 90% of the work anyway.

Drivability is basically same as stock. You do need to tweak some idling parameters for the car not to stall when coming to a stop, but that’s pretty easy. Asides for making more power, no one would guess my car is cammed based on drivability.

[Tbonem3]

Don't bother with buildjournal "tune" Red.

[LemansM]

Only regret was not doing followers at the same time. I installed 288/280 cams at around 89k miles and started getting excessive wear in the first couple cam lobes (exhaust side) a few thousand miles in. The manufacturer inspected the cams and blamed it on the oe re-used rockers. Although they did cover replacement. I had to start over again with both new cams and rockers. (edit: I track my car)

[RedM3/4]

Thanks, car runs fine, was just thinking a cheap/simple tune to take advantage of the intake and headers might be worth it.
I want to do a full blown tune, but only after all major mods are done since I may have to go out of town to find a dyno that works with remote tuners and has sniffer ready to go.

ADS

Don't bother with buildjournal "tune" Red.

[terra]

Thanks!
My CPI headers are single stepped, not quite the power of the SSV1. I have a used CPI euro2004 with cats, but they've been drilled or burned out, smells catless. So far no loss down low, the intake really woke things up after headers, but biggest gains from my but dyno are 4000+ RPM.
I've not done a tune, I may do a build journal tune short term, but will do a Paul Claude or dyno tune after the cam decision.
Did you do new followers? One vid I saw it appears you have to take front end parts off to get the shafts out, what a PITA!

ADS

I did not do followers. Seem to be doing okay ~15k miles later. I do not track my car.

Don’t know if it made a difference, but I did coat everything with Loctite’s cam lube and ran the first couple oil changes with a high ZDDP oil (think I used Castrol’s 5w-50 oil).

[RedM3/4]

With the pressures involved, I expect it's all over one way or another on wear-in within 1000 miles or so; the cam lube and zddp for at least the first oil was smart. I use a mixture of Castrol 0w40 and TWS for the last 35k miles, I'll have to look for the 5w50 if it's got more zddp. Didn't realize you could buy it any longer w/o going to a special race oil.
Thanks for the update!

ADS

I did not do followers. Seem to be doing okay ~15k miles later. I do not track my car.

Don’t know if it made a difference, but I did coat everything with Loctite’s cam lube and ran the first couple oil changes with a high ZDDP oil (think I used Castrol’s 5w-50 oil).

[Syfon]

What are the pressure relief valves - end caps on the rocker shafts or ?

My research suggests pre-LCI S54's came with barrel-type camshafts (i.e. hollow) with a pressure relief valve (in each camshaft) similar to the CPV valve on the driver's side (for me, lol). The relief valves regulate oil pressure to ~4.5bar (65psi), providing constant lubrication to the vanos radial bearings. The relief valves are seated just behind the vanos shaft when it's fully inserted to the camshaft.

Post-LCI S54's had a "blanking plate" installed where the pre-LCI S54's had the relief valves (mine is March 2004 production and has solid camshafts, i.e. no relief valve installed from the factory) . BMW clearly changed the design of the camshafts and determined the relief valves were not necessary.

Realoem does not list a separate part number for the relief valves. However, the S62 (E39 M5) utilises 4 of these valves. Part # 11311402197

The CAT Cams are the same design as pre-LCI S54 camshafts, thus requiring 2 x pressure relief valves (if you look down the camshaft from the front, approx 100mm, there is a thread where the relief valves need to screw in). If you don't install these valves, well, we all know what happens when moving parts don't receive lubrication.


Thanks for the info re the oil bridge. Sorry to be a pain, but I still don't quite understand exactly what purpose it serves. What is different about the camshaft setup that requires the oil delivery system to be modified?

Cheers

[bigjae46]

Would it make a difference to polish the cams and/or the followers?

[SliM3]

Would it make a difference to polish the cams and/or the followers?

Yep! Had my cams and shrick followers, along with all VANOS gear, REM super finished. Like skating on ice, and followers have no wear to the DLC coating. Shaved time off VANOS actuation too!


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[bigjae46]

Yep! Had my cams and shrick followers, along with all VANOS gear, REM super finished. Like skating on ice, and followers have no wear to the DLC coating. Shaved time off VANOS actuation too!


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That’s good to hear because I can get things REM polished for cheap.


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