S54 Vanos post Beisan/DV Rebuild Timing Issue

[sapote]

If you have a gap on the exhaust side of head when checking the intake cam this means your intake cam is slightly advanced with crank at TDC1 so you would compensate by having the crank set slightly Counter Clockwise (retarded) of the locking hole when tightening your hub bolts up..

To correct a cam slightly advanced, the crank should be cheated by slightly CW (advanced). Set it slightly CCW will cause more cam advanced.

[sapote]

Where did you use a socket and how?

"install a hard chain tensioner tool (I used a socket instead of the stock spring loaded piston)"
Remove the chain tensioner, pull out the piston and the spring, then insert a socket that fits the hole and protrudes out similar amount to the stock piston.

[Cubieman]

To correct a cam slightly advanced, the crank should be cheated by slightly CW (advanced). Set it slightly CCW will cause more cam advanced.

Thanks, you and Mau helped me out quite bit when I had my issues with this and it would seem I still don't have it together, maybe I shouldn't be giving advice after I've had a few..

[Arinb12]

"install a hard chain tensioner tool (I used a socket instead of the stock spring loaded piston)"
Remove the chain tensioner, pull out the piston and the spring, then insert a socket that fits the hole and protrudes out similar amount to the stock piston.

But that socket isn't screwed on? How does it provide tension if it's just pushed in? or do you mean it is pushed Into the chain tensioner, in place of piston and spring (are they easy to remove from the tensioner body?) and then that's screwed back in?

Could that socket not fall into the engine?

[Arinb12]

To correct a cam slightly advanced, the crank should be cheated by slightly CW (advanced). Set it slightly CCW will cause more cam advanced.

So if on my exhaust cam when checking after bolting up I stil have a lift on the bridge on the intake side, then I need to slightly retard the exhaust cam when timing before bolting up, or do I advance? And if so which way? Is that CCW or CW. Don't want to do the crank because intake is getting no problem

[Arinb12]

i just redid my timing 3 weeks ago as I made a stupid mistake during removal of the VANOS unit to replace the oil pump disc (Beisan warranty) and ended up having to loosening the hubs and as such I had to retime the engine. I followed the TIS document to the T except the parts where you need special tools, i was able to set my timing in one try.

the pins went butter smooth during assembly, after many rotations (maybe 6-8) the pins would still go all the way in, just not as smooth as prior to rotating the engine. And I had the tool sit flush on both ends, so that was good enough to me.

again, i used the torque marks, and I did maybe an 1/8 of a turn at a time evenly during hub and Vanos assembly to ensure everything mated without any skewing.

also I think is key to use the BMW spacers, they cost pennies, i have them and you don’t have to be eye balling 5mm of separation of the Vanos unit to the head. I have used the caliper method but due to space on the Z4M even with the caliper you wonder if it was 100% parallel.

but one thing everyone with OCD (as myself) need to understand is that even if there is a slight lift or shift of the cams, there is plenty of adjustment for the engine management to meet all operational targets.

Have you done a DIS vanos test or even looked at your adaptations on ecuworx DME tool?

How do the spacers work? You push against them and then pull them out?

[sapote]

But that socket isn't screwed on? How does it provide tension if it's just pushed in? or do you mean it is pushed Into the chain tensioner, in place of piston and spring (are they easy to remove from the tensioner body?) and then that's screwed back in?

Could that socket not fall into the engine?

Replace the piston and spring with a socket about same length (inside the screwed housing) so it is a home made hard tensioner. The tensioner not tilt down.

[maupineda]

Have you done a DIS vanos test or even looked at your adaptations on ecuworx DME tool?

How do the spacers work? You push against them and then pull them out?

correct, spacers are in place just to level the unit before tightening to the head

yes, i have done the test, in terms of adaptations, my exhaust cam is at 0 and intake at 1.4deg.

During testing, ISTA reported targets where all met within 0.5 of a degree. I will post images as is kind of cool to see what ISTA reports out.

[sapote]

So if on my exhaust cam when checking after bolting up I stil have a lift on the bridge on the intake side, then I need to slightly retard the exhaust cam when timing before bolting up, or do I advance? And if so which way? Is that CCW or CW. Don't want to do the crank because intake is getting no problem

Then the EX cam is retarded, so you want to cheat and set it more advanced, CW vu from front. But how does one do this correctly? To do this reliably, unfortunately you have to loosen and pull the vanos forward again then torque it to the head to avoid having backlash from vanos pistons to spline to the hub. This means both hubs have to be loosen. This means you start all over again but set the EX cam more advance from the bridge pin reference to cheat it, You could leave the IN cam at bridge pin, but I don't understand why only EX cam was retarded but not IN cam after the procedure, in this case. I suggest you cheat both cams and set them slightly advance (more CW from the pin reference and so the bridge will lift up on the EX side of the head the same amount you want to correct)

[Arinb12]

Replace the piston and spring with a socket about same length (inside the screwed housing) so it is a home made hard tensioner. The tensioner not tilt down.

Sorry, I still don't quite understand.

You mean put a socket the length of A into the hole with the arrow and refit, and then do the timing process. Once all timed and bolted up, replace the normal tensioner?

[sapote]

Yes. A little shorter than A is fine as you want to be able to thread in the housing.

[Arinb12]

Then the EX cam is retarded, so you want to cheat and set it more advanced, CW vu from front. But how does one do this correctly? To do this reliably, unfortunately you have to loosen and pull the vanos forward again then torque it to the head to avoid having backlash from vanos pistons to spline to the hub. This means both hubs have to be loosen. This means you start all over again but set the EX cam more advance from the bridge pin reference to cheat it, You could leave the IN cam at bridge pin, but I don't understand why only EX cam was retarded but not IN cam after the procedure, in this case. I suggest you cheat both cams and set them slightly advance (more CW from the pin reference and so the bridge will lift up on the EX side of the head the same amount you want to correct)

Could I not leave the intake cam bolted tight, loosen the exhaust. Pull the vanos with exhaust piston and spline attached but remove the spline from intake piston (10mm/8mm spanners) and leave it fitted in the intake hub.

Then refit doing everything only for the exhaust side?

[Arinb12]

Yes. A little shorter than A is fine as you want to be able to thread in the housing.

Perfect, thank you. I was just worried of the risk of it falling into engine, but it now makes sense
this should theoretically make it all easier, with no biasing needed and minimal issue when tightening hubs down (still doing it gently 1/4 by 1/4 turn)?

[sapote]

Could I not leave the intake cam bolted tight, loosen the exhaust. Pull the vanos with exhaust piston and spline attached but remove the spline from intake piston (10mm/8mm spanners) and leave it fitted in the intake hub.

Then refit doing everything only for the exhaust side?

I like your better idea. Yes.

[sapote]

Thanks, you and Mau helped me out quite bit when I had my issues with this and it would seem I still don't have it together, maybe I shouldn't be giving advice after I've had a few..

You gave very good advices on this, so don't stop. All of us do say confuse stuff sometime.