S54 Vanos post Beisan/DV Rebuild Timing Issue

[maupineda]

Have you done a DIS vanos test or even looked at your adaptations on ecuworx DME tool?

How do the spacers work? You push against them and then pull them out?

correct, spacers are in place just to level the unit before tightening to the head

yes, i have done the test, in terms of adaptations, my exhaust cam is at 0 and intake at 1.4deg.

During testing, ISTA reported targets where all met within 0.5 of a degree. I will post images as is kind of cool to see what ISTA reports out.

[sapote]

But that socket isn't screwed on? How does it provide tension if it's just pushed in? or do you mean it is pushed Into the chain tensioner, in place of piston and spring (are they easy to remove from the tensioner body?) and then that's screwed back in?

Could that socket not fall into the engine?

Replace the piston and spring with a socket about same length (inside the screwed housing) so it is a home made hard tensioner. The tensioner not tilt down.

[Arinb12]

i just redid my timing 3 weeks ago as I made a stupid mistake during removal of the VANOS unit to replace the oil pump disc (Beisan warranty) and ended up having to loosening the hubs and as such I had to retime the engine. I followed the TIS document to the T except the parts where you need special tools, i was able to set my timing in one try.

the pins went butter smooth during assembly, after many rotations (maybe 6-8) the pins would still go all the way in, just not as smooth as prior to rotating the engine. And I had the tool sit flush on both ends, so that was good enough to me.

again, i used the torque marks, and I did maybe an 1/8 of a turn at a time evenly during hub and Vanos assembly to ensure everything mated without any skewing.

also I think is key to use the BMW spacers, they cost pennies, i have them and you don’t have to be eye balling 5mm of separation of the Vanos unit to the head. I have used the caliper method but due to space on the Z4M even with the caliper you wonder if it was 100% parallel.

but one thing everyone with OCD (as myself) need to understand is that even if there is a slight lift or shift of the cams, there is plenty of adjustment for the engine management to meet all operational targets.

Have you done a DIS vanos test or even looked at your adaptations on ecuworx DME tool?

How do the spacers work? You push against them and then pull them out?

[Arinb12]

To correct a cam slightly advanced, the crank should be cheated by slightly CW (advanced). Set it slightly CCW will cause more cam advanced.

So if on my exhaust cam when checking after bolting up I stil have a lift on the bridge on the intake side, then I need to slightly retard the exhaust cam when timing before bolting up, or do I advance? And if so which way? Is that CCW or CW. Don't want to do the crank because intake is getting no problem

[Arinb12]

"install a hard chain tensioner tool (I used a socket instead of the stock spring loaded piston)"
Remove the chain tensioner, pull out the piston and the spring, then insert a socket that fits the hole and protrudes out similar amount to the stock piston.

But that socket isn't screwed on? How does it provide tension if it's just pushed in? or do you mean it is pushed Into the chain tensioner, in place of piston and spring (are they easy to remove from the tensioner body?) and then that's screwed back in?

Could that socket not fall into the engine?

[Cubieman]

To correct a cam slightly advanced, the crank should be cheated by slightly CW (advanced). Set it slightly CCW will cause more cam advanced.

Thanks, you and Mau helped me out quite bit when I had my issues with this and it would seem I still don't have it together, maybe I shouldn't be giving advice after I've had a few..

[sapote]

Where did you use a socket and how?

"install a hard chain tensioner tool (I used a socket instead of the stock spring loaded piston)"
Remove the chain tensioner, pull out the piston and the spring, then insert a socket that fits the hole and protrudes out similar amount to the stock piston.

[sapote]

If you have a gap on the exhaust side of head when checking the intake cam this means your intake cam is slightly advanced with crank at TDC1 so you would compensate by having the crank set slightly Counter Clockwise (retarded) of the locking hole when tightening your hub bolts up..

To correct a cam slightly advanced, the crank should be cheated by slightly CW (advanced). Set it slightly CCW will cause more cam advanced.

[maupineda]

I saw your post on torque markings and then making sure I did it evenly, and followed it it just did not work on both cams. I got intake spot on. Exhaust kept being out, so I biased that cam a tiny tiny bit. Anyway let's try tomorrow with a vanos test and see what happens

i just redid my timing 3 weeks ago as I made a stupid mistake during removal of the VANOS unit to replace the oil pump disc (Beisan warranty) and ended up having to loosening the hubs and as such I had to retime the engine. I followed the TIS document to the T except the parts where you need special tools, i was able to set my timing in one try.

the pins went butter smooth during assembly, after many rotations (maybe 6-8) the pins would still go all the way in, just not as smooth as prior to rotating the engine. And I had the tool sit flush on both ends, so that was good enough to me.

again, i used the torque marks, and I did maybe an 1/8 of a turn at a time evenly during hub and Vanos assembly to ensure everything mated without any skewing.

also I think is key to use the BMW spacers, they cost pennies, i have them and you don’t have to be eye balling 5mm of separation of the Vanos unit to the head. I have used the caliper method but due to space on the Z4M even with the caliper you wonder if it was 100% parallel.

but one thing everyone with OCD (as myself) need to understand is that even if there is a slight lift or shift of the cams, there is plenty of adjustment for the engine management to meet all operational targets.

[Arinb12]

If you have a lift on either side you do not want to live with you need to start over, retarding the cam will just make the tool sit flush at that moment, spin the engine and you are back at corner one, this means the spline gear moved on you during mating the VANOS to the head . You must maintain the splines and pistons fully bottomed out at all times. If not, there is a gap and the moment you spin the engine the gap closes by the pistons bottoming out and thus moving your camshaft forward.

You must be very methodical and slow during mating the VANOS to the head so nothing moves. Literally a quarter of a turn per side at a time. Then it all falls in place and even then an ever so slight lift or stickiness to the pins when inserting is fine.

I saw your post on torque markings and then making sure I did it evenly, and followed it it just did not work on both cams. I got intake spot on. Exhaust kept being out, so I biased that cam a tiny tiny bit. Anyway let's try tomorrow with a vanos test and see what happens

[maupineda]

If you have a lift on either side you do not want to live with you need to start over, retarding the cam will just make the tool sit flush at that moment, spin the engine and you are back at corner one, this means the spline gear moved on you during mating the VANOS to the head . You must maintain the splines and pistons fully bottomed out at all times. If not, there is a gap and the moment you spin the engine the gap closes by the pistons bottoming out and thus moving your camshaft forward.

You must be very methodical and slow during mating the VANOS to the head so nothing moves. Literally a quarter of a turn per side at a time. Then it all falls in place and even then an ever so slight lift or stickiness to the pins when inserting is fine.

[Cubieman]

So if on my exhaust cam when checking after bolting up. I have a lift on the bridge on the intake side, then I need to slightly retard the exhaust cam when timing before bolting up, or advance?

this would mean after a few rotations. And lokxing at tdc1 I should have a flat bridge for the exhaust cam check?

Thanks!

If you have a gap on the intake side this means the cam is retarded and must be advanced for bridge to sit flat. The same is true for either cam, gap on intake side= retarded, gap on exhaust side=advanced.

Just know the engine spins Clockwise as viewed from front as do the cams.

[Arinb12]

Correct, when I biased the crank it was just barely outside of the range where the lock could not be inserted. So basically instead of the locking hole being centered in the "window" it would be ever so slightly to one side or the other, depending on how you need to compensate for the cams.

If you have a gap on the exhaust side of head when checking the intake cam this means your intake cam is slightly advanced with crank at TDC1 so you would compensate by having the crank set slightly Counter Clockwise (retarded) of the locking hole when tightening your hub bolts up.

If just one cam is off I would probably just bias that cam, or if both cams are off by different amounts and you are OCD like me bias each cam as needed.

As I'm sure you are aware when you bias the crank you will affect both cams timing, so if one cam checks out (bridge is flat) and the other isn't you'll fix one but then mess the other up if that makes any sense.

So if on my exhaust cam when checking after bolting up. I have a lift on the bridge on the intake side, then I need to slightly retard the exhaust cam when timing before bolting up, or advance?

this would mean after a few rotations. And lokxing at tdc1 I should have a flat bridge for the exhaust cam check?

Thanks!

[Arinb12]

For those that have the timing bridge that off the head on the intake side after complete the VANOS timing procedure, I believe this is mostly due to the chain slack. For whatever the reason BMW instruction doesn’t ask to use a solid chain tension as it is required when doing the timing on non-M cars. As soon as the hubs bolts were released, the sprockets are free to turn and causing chain slack on the pulling side (RH side front view) which leads to the timing small error.

We have 2 choices to correct this: install a hard chain tensioner tool (I used a socket instead of the stock spring loaded piston), or offset the crank pulley 2mm CCW from TDC.
For those that have the timing bridge that off the head on the intake side after complete the VANOS timing procedure, I believe this is mostly due to the chain slack. For whatever the reason BMW instruction doesn’t ask to use a solid chain tension as it is required when doing the timing on non-M cars. As soon as the hubs bolts were released, the sprockets are free to turn and causing chain slack on the pulling side (RH side front view) which leads to the timing small error.

We have 2 choices to correct this: install a hard chain tensioner tool (I used a socket instead of the stock spring loaded piston), or offset the crank pulley 2mm CCW from TDC.

Where did you use a socket and how?

[Cubieman]

Thank you! And I assume a few mm of bias on the crank is a tiny tiny amount, so it would mean just slight on either side of the I in OIT?

What if when checking intake cam, the gap is on the exhaust side of the bridge?

Correct, when I biased the crank it was just barely outside of the range where the lock could not be inserted. So basically instead of the locking hole being centered in the "window" it would be ever so slightly to one side or the other, depending on how you need to compensate for the cams.

If you have a gap on the exhaust side of head when checking the intake cam this means your intake cam is slightly advanced with crank at TDC1 so you would compensate by having the crank set slightly Counter Clockwise (retarded) of the locking hole when tightening your hub bolts up.

If just one cam is off I would probably just bias that cam, or if both cams are off by different amounts and you are OCD like me bias each cam as needed.

As I'm sure you are aware when you bias the crank you will affect both cams timing, so if one cam checks out (bridge is flat) and the other isn't you'll fix one but then mess the other up if that makes any sense.