e46 M3 suspension setup, or how to not downgrade your car with suspension mods

[cobra]

I'm happy this thread popped back up. For the past 6 months I've digested all I could find on this subject. The vast majority of the knowledge came from this group - thank you. A few weeks ago I walked into my local indy and asked them to install the Dinan/Koni Yellow package. They responded with "Why not just install KW V1 when they are roughly the same price and allow for height adjustment/corner balancing?" They also implied the KW package would be the better performer for my daily needs.

I've never felt either setup on this car so I didn't have an answer. And I still don't. I've been considering the question for weeks now. I would appreciate any feedback anyone might like to share on this subject.

I have run the Koni/Dinan setup for 40k some-odd miles. At first I thought it was the most incredible thing I have ever felt. With experience and knowledge I have learned that they aren't so hot - for a few reasons.
-They lower the car without increasing the rate enough. In the rear, there is a moderate spring rate increase and switch to linear rate, but in front they only slightly increased the rate, while lowering half an inch. This is enough to practically ride on the bump stops at static height. I don't believe in running on the bump stop during normal use, as it gives the car a weird feeling. It feels harsh on bigger impacts and becomes bouncy during hard cornering. Linear springs are more predictable and easier to tune for damping.
-The shocks don't make enough compression damping. As the pace increases you can really feel the loss of grip and control. They are fine for street driving/commuting I suppose.
-The rear shocks being "compress to adjust" rebound adjustment is the worst f-ing design I have ever come across. If you must, then AT LEAST get the top-adjustable ones.

The Koni vs KW V1 is not a reasonable comparison because the V1 are non adjustable. Adjustability is nice to fine tune. You can get 90% or even 95% there, but having the ability to add or subtract a few clicks from the target setting lets you dial it in to your preference. The correct comparison would be the KW V2.

Both shocks are twin tube architecture.

KW are shorter and will allow lowering without risking crashing into the bump stops. Koni should be run at stock height since they are the same length of stock shocks.

I would do Koni with stock springs or KW V2.

[mrgizmo04]

My s2000 on the other hand I’ll be working with Shaik on dialing that in as it’s already purpose build to see track time.

Do you know if Shaikh has a spreadsheet for an s2k? I'm playing around with mine, it's twitchy at times, to say the least. I'm on "stock" Ohlins 10/8 setup with a front ap1 bar and playing around with other settings.

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[Mayan-Viking]

V1’s are a downgrade in every since way, expect parking lot meets.

Another confirmation. Thank you. I am done with the notion of the KWs. I wish the idea never entered my head. I will sleep so well tonight...

[Mayan-Viking]

But, V1s in particular are not worth considering.

This is very helpful, thank you. Kinda ends the internal debate in my head that has cost me countless hours of idle time over the past few weeks...

[Chas3n]

I'm happy this thread popped back up. For the past 6 months I've digested all I could find on this subject. The vast majority of the knowledge came from this group - thank you. A few weeks ago I walked into my local indy and asked them to install the Dinan/Koni Yellow package. They responded with "Why not just install KW V1 when they are roughly the same price and allow for height adjustment/corner balancing?" They also implied the KW package would be the better performer for my daily needs.

I've never felt either setup on this car so I didn't have an answer. And I still don't. I've been considering the question for weeks now. I would appreciate any feedback anyone might like to share on this subject.

V1’s are a downgrade in every since way, expect parking lot meets. They allow for very low ride height (you’ll need to order the sway bar links separately though) but that’s all they provide over the setup I posted.

That said, unless your hunting serious track times, the b4/Eibach/hotchkis setup will product fun track days and very compliment canyon runs


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[Mayan-Viking]

Thank you, I should have been more clear. Spirited street driving 97% of the time. Track days are just for fun these days, I'm not worried about setting records.

I do, however, want a car that's planted and balanced and I'm willing to forego ride height adjustments to achieve that if necessary.

I've had KW V3s on an E39 M in the past. I'm not looking for that type of complication with this car; I lack the time and energy. Not sure about the V1s...

[Obioban]

I'm happy this thread popped back up. For the past 6 months I've digested all I could find on this subject. The vast majority of the knowledge came from this group - thank you. A few weeks ago I walked into my local indy and asked them to install the Dinan/Koni Yellow package. They responded with "Why not just install KW V1 when they are roughly the same price and allow for height adjustment/corner balancing?" They also implied the KW package would be the better performer for my daily needs.

I've never felt either setup on this car so I didn't have an answer. And I still don't. I've been considering the question for weeks now. I would appreciate any feedback anyone might like to share on this subject.

KWV1s are junk.

KWs in general aren’t very good till you’re at the v3 or club sport tier, and even then there’s better stuff at that price point.

But, V1s in particular are not worth considering.

[Cronenberged]

You need to determine your driving wants/needs first. That will determine what you should do. Mayan-Viking

[Mayan-Viking]

So for roughly $1400, which is the cost of most trash "coilover" kits (think BC Racing, KW V1/2, ect.) I have a setup that performance wise is FASTER, and comfort wise is MUCH better.

I'm happy this thread popped back up. For the past 6 months I've digested all I could find on this subject. The vast majority of the knowledge came from this group - thank you. A few weeks ago I walked into my local indy and asked them to install the Dinan/Koni Yellow package. They responded with "Why not just install KW V1 when they are roughly the same price and allow for height adjustment/corner balancing?" They also implied the KW package would be the better performer for my daily needs.

I've never felt either setup on this car so I didn't have an answer. And I still don't. I've been considering the question for weeks now. I would appreciate any feedback anyone might like to share on this subject.

[Tbonem3]

U.S. M3 Coupe Spring Rates
Spring Rate Front 25 N/mm (143 lbs/inch)
Spring Rate Rear 60 - 120 N/mm (345 - 685 lbs/inch)
Eibach Pro Kit
Spring Rate Front 27 N/mm (155 lbs/inch)
Spring Rate Rear 66 - 132 N/mm (375 - 750 lbs/inch)

[lvm3sm46]

40,000 miles is about 10yrs away for me. I didn't go this route to be "cheap" but rather to achieve maximum comfort without spending the next step up, which would be $5,000+

Price breakdown not including refreshing the OE hardware (links, shock mounts)
Hotckis Sway bars $630
B4 Dampers $450
Eibach Springs $300

So for roughly $1400, which is the cost of most trash "coilover" kits (think BC Racing, KW V1/2, ect.) I have a setup that performance wise is FASTER, and comfort wise is MUCH better. The next step up would be custom valved Billy's from Fat Cat and springs which would run $5,000. B8's are a downgrade in comfort which is HUGE to me. B8's marginally perform better than the B4's but significantly ride worse than b4's. You can send the b8's out Fat Cat, but at that point, they make less financial sense performance wise % than ordering a set of the pss10's and sending them to Shaik..

My ride is sublime in both comfort and performance and for 1/4 the price of a dedicated "track setup". Again, 40k mile interval rebuilds is awesome, easy enough to do and will take me a decade to get to.

What are the spring rates of the Eibach Springs?

[Chas3n]

FYI Shaik doesn't like/want to work on the PSS10s. H&R coilovers (which use bilstein dampers) are his go to starting point.

Flat ride is the most absurdly better thing I've ever done to my car's suspension. Better ride quality AND handling is exactly correct. I can't believe this car was out for 15+ years before there was any real awareness of it. I've moved every car I own to it since sampling it once, and will never go back.

Yep! Unfortunately most on the s2000 forums are naive/against this setup.


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[Chas3n]

Curious - How do you define comfort and performance objectively?

Most likely higher than average.

Comfort: like a Lexus

Performance: able to chase down GT3’s

[Obioban]

The next step up would be custom valved Billy's from Fat Cat and springs which would run $5,000. B8's are a downgrade in comfort which is HUGE to me. B8's marginally perform better than the B4's but significantly ride worse than b4's. You can send the b8's out Fat Cat, but at that point, they make less financial sense performance wise % than ordering a set of the pss10's and sending them to Shaik..

FYI Shaik doesn't like/want to work on the PSS10s. H&R coilovers (which use bilstein dampers) are his go to starting point.

Flat ride is the most absurdly better thing I've ever done to my car's suspension. Better ride quality AND handling is exactly correct. I can't believe this car was out for 15+ years before there was any real awareness of it. I've moved every car I own to it since sampling it once, and will never go back.

[Chas3n]

Curious - How do you define comfort and performance objectively?

Most likely at a live higher than average.

Comfort: like a Lexus

Performance: able to chase down GT3’s